Feral Dog Interaction

Zombie Zeke

Zombie Zeke

Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
2,642
Most of you know I am a dog lover, but these feral dogs are getting pretty ridiculous in my neck of the high desert.

Yesterday, on the way to the post I was attacked by two dogs, no damage to either party but make no mistake it made me want to carry my .45 on leisurely strolls through the barren wastes.

It's sad that I wish I had my camera to post the pics of these two, one was a beautiful Pit Bull, Merle and Red Brindle, bigger than Stubbs so about 90 to 100 pounds the other looked like a Black Lab smaller and starving.

They came around a corner, on a dirt road facing the interstate, I heard the foot falls and growling and pulled my knife, yelling at them NO, BAD. Then raising my arms to look bigger, anything I could think of to make them go away so I wouldn't have to hurt them.

They both paused and went into barking and holding their ground about 10 feet away. They both looked angry, teeth bared and fur on end, far out of arms reach. I picked up a large rock and threw it at the Black dog, hitting his front legs, he tucked tail and ran. Then strangely the Pit just relaxed put his ears down, and started to walk up to me. I kept my knife at the ready and said Good Boy, he changed the expression and just walked up to me. I pet him, scratched his ears and looked on his collar to see if he had a home. He didn't then put my knife away and started back to the post office.
He looked around and started down the road from where he came.

That was it, scary, weird and a really ultimately kind of enlightening experience.

I think if any, one part of that ordeal had gone differently, I would be in the hospital getting sutures and poked with needles and the dog(s) would be in bad shape as well. But if I had my pistol, there wouldn't have been any question as to the outcome, in my mind at least.

Sorry guys, I am just kind of working through this, what would you have done differently?

Another thing it reinforced in my mind is that Pit Bulls while tenacious and bull headed aren't as bad as advertised they are dogs, just like any other.
 
I think you handled it very well--and you were lucky .

However--I do not like Pits.

The deadliest dogs
Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.

According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:

If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.

stats
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
 
I had a chunk of my lower left calf removed by a pit, while riding my bike when I was 12. It got off the chain and came straight at me. I didn't see it until I was drug off the bike and down on the ground. When I was down, I kept kicking at it, yelling go away, it just kinda casually leaned to the side and bit down on my left leg, about 10" up from the top of my shoes. I screamed, and started gouging its eyes, and yanking on its ears, one of which let go, but the dog didn't. Some guys were in a work truck behind me when I was riding and darn near ran me over when the dog pulled me off the bike. All three of the guys piled out and started hitting and kicking the pit. It still didnt' let go, it finally swung around and one of the guys grabbed it by balls, squeezed, twisted and yanked. He let go, and ran off. My leg was a mess and had to be put back together. The dog was penned up, and monitored for rabies. It died of natural causes, cause I naturally shot it. I don't mind dogs, I've had dogs, but if a dog gets out of line around me or my family, they die right there. I know there are alot of dog lovers on here, and I hope I don't offend. I don't hurt, injure or kill dogs unless I have to, but believe, me, it doesn't bother me when I do have to.

I put it like this, dogs are animals, though be them very intelligent and loving, for the most part, but they are animals and prone to instincts.

A good friend of mine took his family over to his moms house one Sunday for lunch. His mom had some small, yipper breed of dog, I can't remember. Anyway, his daughter was 3yrs old at the time, his son was 1yr old. They go in and start the heys and how are yous and so on. His daughter reached down to pet the dog at his moms feet, and it bit her. On the cheek. Now doesn't seem that bad, right? It tore out a chunk of meat. She will forever be scarred because of a dog that had never bit anyone, or showed aggression towards anything or anybody. She's 15yrs old now, and the scar looks like someone took a burning hot coke can bottom to her left cheek. The docs say that when she's out of her big growing phase, they can do surgery to "minimize" the scarring.

Pets or no pets, dogs are animals. I love all life and all creatures, and do not kill or hurt anthing that I don't absolutely have to. I only trust animals to be animals, nothing more.

Moose
 
Zombie Zeke,

I give you a ton of credit for handling that situation the way you did. If I was carrying and the same situation happened to me, there is no doubt in my mind that those two dogs would be dead, on the spot.
 
valcas1 said:
Zombie Zeke,

I give you a ton of credit for handling that situation the way you did. If I was carrying and the same situation happened to me, there is no doubt in my mind that those two dogs would be dead, on the spot.
Click to expand...

Thanks man, it wasn't for lack of want. I felt the rush and saw red, if either were in range, I would have let loose with aim and intent to kill. But I was not going to advance on a two front fight, I know its the old boxer in me to counter and move, even though I am most definitely too slow to stick and move anymore.


As for petting the dog, you had to be there man, there was a look in it's eyes that was something close to respect, it advanced but not in hostility once the other dog left, hell, I was so amped with adrenaline at that point, i don't know.
 
Here Jersey I encounter some ferral dogs roaming around. I only had to chase off a few over the years. I used to carry a collapsible hiking from REI.
Now that I have small kids with me sometimes. I carry bear Mace and a oak hiking staff. Sometimes I even carry my off duty for the two legged creatures, but I would not hesistate to use it on a really aggressive dogs.
 
Labrador retrievers are actually responsible for more bites than any other breed in the United States (probably due to their high popularity...more dogs = more chances for bites).

However, pits, when they bite, have far more ability to actually do damage than a labrador does.

Would you believe that a dachsund and a beagle are both considered to be more people aggressive than most pits?

The misleading factor to all of these statistics is how many different breeds are lumped into "pitbull." It plays a numbers game with regards to stacking the numbers against pits.

That being said, I have met pitbulls that have had toddlers yank their ears, pull their tails, and every other thing and done nothing but wagged their tails and tried to lick the child.

I've also met pitbulls that I was 100% sure would attack and kill any child or animal in their vicinity, and potentially adults.


The median pit bull I meet tends to be very friendly towards people but extremely unfriendly towards other animals. This is, after all, how pits were bred in the fighting rings -- to wish to kill another animal with every fiber of their being but to be able to be handled by any human.

One of the tests that dog fighters often put their dogs through is letting the opposing dog's owner take the dog into their hands and run their hands all over the dog's body. Not only does it verify that nothing is "not as it seems" but it also tests the temperament of the dog for future breeding.

I know this because I am a firm believer in having open eyes with regards to evil -- I despise dog fighters and everything they stand for.

Truly, I believe the pitbull as a breed has been ruined more by backyard breeders, wannabe tough guys, and dog fighters, than anything.\

I commend you for handling the situation well and for taking some pity on the poor Pit. It seems to me that pack mentality has gotten him -- I'd wager that the black lab mix is the more volatile of the two dogs and the pit probably follows his lead. The pit was probably only recently escaped since you said he looked good, but the black lab mix had obviously been feral for some time.

I currently own two labradors...one yellow from a breeder who is a total sweetheart, and one black lab / hound mix that I found literally on the side of the road starving. He's had his "feral" moments but I saw the glimmer of hope in his eye and it's paid off.
 
I think you did everything right, and the only difference is next time it happens you will be able to put the dog down quickly and humanely if it goes south on you. I am of the opinion that it is the owner/breeder that causes the problems, not the dogs, it's just that the bigger the dog, the bigger the consequences. How many people are scared/concerned/ want to ban little dogs that bite? not many, most people think a little growling furball is cute, but that same attitude from a rotti, and the dog is "Evil".

As a side note, where I used to work there was a petting zoo type thing, goats, ducks, a llama, you know. One morning the person in charge of the animals found the pens in total carnage, almost everything dead, and two hyper aggressive blood soaked golden retrievers. any dog can be a bad dog, if it has a bad owner. the owners of these two dogs (tagged and licensed) were known to neglect their dogs.
 
I carry a sidearm 24/7, city or woods/backcountry. If I encounter any wild dogs, sorry they get shot. I figure I'm protecting some others not so prepared as myself.
 
I've been around feral dogs in a lot of different countries and in Bangkok, Thailand, a very large city, feral dogs run around in big packs. I walked into a back alley late at night trying to find my hotel when I ran into a pack of around 40 or so aggressive dogs. They were very threatening towards me and were trying to corner me. I pulled out my camera monopod and when they went for it I brained the Alpha, but still managed to get nipped on the leg. Fortunately, no rabies.

In my experience I've been shown much more aggression by little dogs than big dogs. Napoleon Complex of sorts. I've been nipped a few times by ankle biter breeds.

I'm on my 7th rottie and have never had any problems with them. They're my preferred breed because of their tolerance with children (they were originally bred as cattle dogs so have that herding instict making them ideal for kids). All of my rotties have been infinitely patient with kids and are very abuse proof due to their high tolerance for pain and their patience. I've had my current 120lbs rottie, Dante (although a lot of people call him Carl as he looks almost exactly like the rottie in that children's book series, except Dante has a tail), poked in the eye by a young child and he just looked at me sadly, obviously begging me to rescue him. He's a bit of a local celebrity, is the mascot of my kids soccer teams, is used as a therapy dog for children, is used as a socialization dog by trainers (due to his patience, confidence, and dominance but never aggressive behavior) special needs adults and the elderlyand plays with dozens of kids weekly. I've been around dozens of rottweilers and Dante is very typical of the breed and in my experience you have to work hard to make them mean.

I read an article in some magazine that stated that German shepherds bite more people than any other breed (and we've already seen this stated as pit bulls and labs in this thread, so who knows the truth). Nobody bands that breed because how can you hate Rin Tin Tin.

I'm a big animal lover, but if I have to kill an animal to protect me and mine, then so be it. I won't be happy about killing Fido, but I won't hesitate to do so either, if I believe it's necessary.

And to make this more WS&S friendly I believe in eating what I kill and fortunately dog tastes pretty decent (had it in a few countries but mostly South Korea) and I would have no problems eating a feral dog in a survival situation and I might even consider my dog emergency food on the hoof (or paw in this case) in a SHTF situation. When I was over in the Balkans War dog, cat, rat, pigeon, etc. were all very necessary foods during the siege of Sarajevo.
 
Guys I enjoy the posts about carrying a pistol, trust me that is the best choice in a sidearm when allowed by law, unfortunately, in California most of us are at the mercy of the laws. The law were I live states that carrying openly or concealed is a crime, if I did put that dog down or both for that matter, I am now two miles from my home, on foot with a firearm, carried illegally. If the police were zealous they could probably tack on more charges or "be cool" about it and only seize the pistol that I worked hard to pay for. This isn't going to turn, political, I merely wanted to express the situation surrounding the "why" aspect of the knife in hand instead of my S&W M&P.


Just as a point for reference these are three of my dogs:
26345958682930757148430.jpg


So I have a pretty good idea of what the general vibe is with the "guard breeds", killing is a big deal to me, it's better to avoid it at all but the worst of scenarios.
 
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At work we've had several calls about loose, wild, aggressive dogs whether they are feral or just got out of their yard. I carry 24/7 and if it was me alone, I'm not certain what the outcome would have been for the dogs - but I shit you not that if my wife or son was with me there would be no questions asked and no quarter shown.

Just to add, I am a BIG animal lover, especially dogs and domestic cats. So that's why I say if I were alone I'm not certain how I would react to the aggressive dogs.

As for moose, I can respect your input as my wife was mauled at a young age by her neighbors loose pack of dogs. She still has some scars on her forearms and legs from when they took her down. Her granddad had to fend them off. She's warmed up to the dogs I have back home but still flinches when she hears that first bark from any dog in the area.
 
WILLIAM.M said:
I think you handled it very well--and you were lucky .

However--I do not like Pits.

The deadliest dogs
Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.

According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:

If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.

stats
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
Click to expand...


Those statistics can be very misleading, escpecially in the hands of a group wanting to restrict certain breed of dog. Take into consideration that a bee sting is twice as painful as a bite from a tiny Yorkshire Terrier.
A bite from a Rottweiler on the otherhand will end very badly for the victim.

So even if 98% of attacks on humans are from Yorkies and 2% are Rottweiler, chances are over 90% of reported maimings will be from the larger dog.
 
Good looking dogs you have ZZ maybe the Feral Pit suddenly being all alone lost the pack aggresive mentality.
 
mkhop said:
Good looking dogs you have ZZ maybe the Feral Pit suddenly being all alone lost the pack aggresive mentality.
Click to expand...

Happens all the time on Dog Whisperer.......what? I can't watch Dog Whisperer when I have nothing to do on my days off :D
 
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