Field sharpening questions, need help please!

[Mountain_Man_]

I've been reading posts for hours, watched all the videos on youtube. I still don't know which one would be best for me, and I don't want to waste my money.

I am looking to get hair shaving sharp from a sharpening system. I would prefer it to be portable so that I have the option of taking it into the field with me as well as being able to sharpen at home. I didn't want to have to buy two stones. I already have the Lansky diamond/ceramic turn box, but it's not really working that well for me. I need to improve my skill and I think that would be easier on a flat surface.

So which would suit my needs best? I was looking at a DC4, DMT credit card (C,F, and EF for $28 on amazon), or the spyderco double stuff. I like the idea of a system that can completely restore a dull blade to sharp again. My main interest was in the DC4 for that reason but I have been hearing stories and posts about some quality control issues in their newer stones. So now I am thinking maybe I could get away with just the DMT credit card set or that in combination with a double stuff.

I would like to know your experiences with any of these sharpeners.

Thank you.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Any of the pocket diamond options you've listed can work well, for restoring an edge in the field, damaged or not. My first choice among those would be the Fallkniven DC4 (I have one, and it's the first one I think of for 'field sharpening'). I also have DMT credit card hones in Fine & EF; they're also very good. With the DC4, you might not even need or want the Spyderco DoubleStuff hone, unless you're determined to maintain a higher finish. The DoubleStuff (I have two) won't be as useful for edge repairs or re-bevelling chores, so you'd want a more aggressive hone to supplement it; the DC4's diamond would fit for this, as would a Coarse or Fine DMT.


David

 

[Fish30114]

First of all, I always defer to David's recommendations. Having said that, I have a Darex Work Sharp field sharpener, it has two coarseness ( is that a word?) diamond hones, a ceramic hone and a leather flat to strop that is preloaded with some compound. I've found it to work pretty well, I used it just about 15 mins ago to bring an old Case stockman's blades both from pretty dull to shaving sharp. Just a little water (spit actually) I know that's a little gross--but just saying it doesn't take a lot, and the diamond ones really took the metal off quickly and then I put it on the stropping part, and it got hair shaving pretty quick.

 

[Mountain_Man_]

The DoubleStuff (I have two) won't be as useful for edge repairs or re-bevelling chores, so you'd want a more aggressive hone to supplement it;

I had figured, I was thinking about adding the DoubleStuff in combination with the DC4 because the DoubleStuff might possibly put a finer edge on my knives?

First of all, I always defer to David's recommendations. Having said that, I have a Darex Work Sharp field sharpener, it has two coarseness ( is that a word?) diamond hones, a ceramic hone and a leather flat to strop that is preloaded with some compound. I've found it to work pretty well, I used it just about 15 mins ago to bring an old Case stockman's blades both from pretty dull to shaving sharp. Just a little water (spit actually) I know that's a little gross--but just saying it doesn't take a lot, and the diamond ones really took the metal off quickly and then I put it on the stropping part, and it got hair shaving pretty quick.

Now that is interesting, I have never seen that before. I think I might settle on that one!

 

[Portman30-06]

I think its best just to Cary a few squares of sandpaper (220-2000). Or I'll bring a ceramic rod or diamond rod. These are all things that will work great to restore your edge, can easily be slipped into the pocket, and will cost practically nothing.

 

[awestib]

The work sharp field sharpener is probably a good idea, it is a handheld device with an angle guide (which is also a disadvantage unless you have profiled your blade to that very angle of I believe 20 dps which is pretty obtuse). You don't need a flat surface etc. There is the ERU from Fred Rowe, again, I have not used it but it has good reviews here on BF. Probably the only good pull through sharpener out there, designed by a knife maker! Suitable for all edge angles you will ever need, and again, you don't need a flat surface.

There are those clamp system, DMT aligner and such, with more grit options and again you don't need a flat surface and you have consistent results. Certainly some disadvantages to clamp systems, I find it awkward and somewhat "silly" to bring a system like that to camp/hike. I'd rather take my Norton Crystolon (which is likely heavier).

Anyway, there are those rod systems, Spyderco Sharpmaker and the turn box you mentioned. I think those systems are great as long as your edge bevel fits the predetermined angle - so for the Spyderco SM <= 20 dps. Problem here is you need a flat and !! horizontal surface. In fact, often neglected, even if the surface is only a bit off from real horizontal, the edge angle changes - how do you use that outdoors? Do you want to bring a level as well, and wedges etc.? I attached a bubble level to my Sharpmaker with epoxy which worked - took it off again since I could not get the rods into the SM to store them anymore since the bubble was in the way.

All those handheld device like the DMT duo folds, handheld rod systems etc. have one big disadvantage for me personal and that is that I sharpen my knives always with the sharpening medium stationary and my preferred way (currently anyway) is using both hands alternating. I can not have consistency in my approach, it is not gonna work well if I suddenly need a complete different way of sharpening. Yeah, I can "touch up" (I hate that word) my edge (in putting a micro bevel on it) with those things but that is not what I want.

So long story short, I prefer a portable and light "benchstone", sturdy enough (not flexible) to put on a tree trunk, on a bigger stone etc. The DMT credit card sharpeners come to mind and if you find a way to lift them up from the ground enough you really have a portable bench stone with many grit options. And I can copy my sharpening approach completely. The DC4 is also a good option and Ray Mears has a youtube video showing how you can make it a stationary stone with a few small nails on a trunk. That is exactly what I am talking about.

Finally, an alternative could be one small double sided strop. One side with a diamond abrasive film (last a long time if used correctly) (here is a link as an example: http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=68943&cat=1,43072), the other side a medium grit compound. That would be a great way to maintain your edge as long as you don't damage is badly.

 

[Mountain_Man_]

So long story short, I prefer a portable and light "benchstone", sturdy enough (not flexible) to put on a tree trunk, on a bigger stone etc. The DMT credit card sharpeners come to mind and if you find a way to lift them up from the ground enough you really have a portable bench stone with many grit options. And I can copy my sharpening approach completely. The DC4 is also a good option and Ray Mears has a youtube video showing how you can make it a stationary stone with a few small nails on a trunk. That is exactly what I am talking about.

Do the credit cards provide enough surface area to sharpen properly?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Do the credit cards provide enough surface area to sharpen properly?

For blades up to about 4" length (think of something along the lines of a Buck 110), they're fine for any task, including re-bevelling. Can still be used on larger blades for routine touch-ups & repair of specific areas of damage. In the last few months, I've been using my Fine/EF credit card hones a lot for such purposes. Much comes down to the individual sharpening style used. For re-bevelling or other major work, a back & forth or circular 'scrubbing' stroke works best (& fastest) on smaller hones like this; for finishing up, I'll follow with very, very light edge-leading strokes, working specific sections at a time (heel, mid-blade, tip). I use mine entirely 'freehand', meaning I hold the hone between my thumb and middle/ring fingers in one hand, while working the blade from the other hand; this is very conducive to the scrubbing stroke used.

All the above would also apply to the slightly smaller DC4 as well; I use mine in the same manner as for the credit card hones.

For reference, surface areas of each:
Fallkniven DC4 = 4.92 sq. in. (3-15/16" long X 1-1/4" wide)
DMT credit card = 6.5 sq. in. (3-1/4" long X 2" wide)

David

 

[awestib]

Do the credit cards provide enough surface area to sharpen properly?

Very important point! That is why I actually prefer to take my double sided 6 inch Norton crystolon stone, some oil and HeavyHanded's washboard (I only have the actual board without the base so very thin and light and I just lay it on the Norton stone) with some paper (or a small strop with compound) with me. This is a bit heavier of course but has no limits, you can sharpen everything you need to any extend (yes, no high polish finish here) and you can bring the stone to an axe/machete etc. if needed. Again, a well designed strop (one side diamonds, one side compound) may just be the perfect sharpkeeper though.

I mean, this thread could go on and on. There are so many options out there. The larger DMT dotted doublesided stone is very light and sturdy option, you can put them on a surface and go to work, no water or oil needed. A leather belt can serve as a hanging strop or placed on a surface as a bench-strop.

 

[Mountain_Man_]

I mean, this thread could go on and on. There are so many options out there. The larger DMT dotted doublesided stone is very light and sturdy option, you can put them on a surface and go to work, no water or oil needed. A leather belt can serve as a hanging strop or placed on a surface as a bench-strop.

Its overwhelming gathering information on a new hobby. All of the above options cost roughly the same and all have different pros and cons. I am at a loss! I'm leaning towards the work sharp field sharpener just for its versatility and probably a full size crystolan or india stone for home use.

The worksharp has detachable diamond plates, ceramic finishing rods, and a leather strop all included in one package, so it seems like that is my best bang for my buck.

 

[pertinux]

The DC4 is also a good option and Ray Mears has a youtube video showing how you can make it a stationary stone with a few small nails on a trunk. That is exactly what I am talking about.

Now look what you've done; of course I had to go look.

[video=youtube;D4y8u_iJf1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4y8u_iJf1M[/video]



~ P.

 

[bgentry]

All of this analysis of field sharpening seems completely misplaced to me. How often do you really sharpen away from home? Microbeveling perhaps. Steeling. But actual sharpening? It seems like you'd just want a touchup tool, which could be many different things depending upon how important weight is in your field kit.

If you want a real sharpening system, I say START with one that isn't focused on small and portable. Get a system that works well at home without having to work around excessively small stones. That way you won't make unnecessary compromises. *Then* supplement that kit with something to do touchups in the field. IMHO.

Brian.

 

[Mountain_Man_]

All of this analysis of field sharpening seems completely misplaced to me. How often do you really sharpen away from home? Microbeveling perhaps. Steeling. But actual sharpening? It seems like you'd just want a touchup tool, which could be many different things depending upon how important weight is in your field kit.

If you want a real sharpening system, I say START with one that isn't focused on small and portable. Get a system that works well at home without having to work around excessively small stones. That way you won't make unnecessary compromises. *Then* supplement that kit with something to do touchups in the field. IMHO.

Brian.

I completely agree. I was hoping to kill two birds with one stone so I wouldn't have to spend a lot of money. I thought that the options that I posted would be practical for home use, however I am not very experienced in knife sharpening. Do you have any suggestions for a starter set of stones? I would like something that would be able to cover all bases for a reasonable price. The Norton set seemed decent, or the new naniwa set if I want to sharpen my straight razors eventually.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

I bought the set of DMT credit cards. All is good for field touch up. Add a piece of DMT EEF (4x1") and you'll get a real shavig sharp (I shave with the knives).

These are my field sharpener, plus a bit of cards loaded with compound. Stored in my other wallet.

As of sharpening straight razor, it's on a different realm. You might want to check jackknifeh thread over Spyderco.com forum, under off topic subforum.

 

[David Martin]

For home use, the 2x6" Norton combination India stone works well. Even consider the 2X8". For in the field I carry a 2x4" India stone a broken piece from the original size. DM

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I completely agree. I was hoping to kill two birds with one stone so I wouldn't have to spend a lot of money. I thought that the options that I posted would be practical for home use, however I am not very experienced in knife sharpening. Do you have any suggestions for a starter set of stones? I would like something that would be able to cover all bases for a reasonable price. The Norton set seemed decent, or the new naniwa set if I want to sharpen my straight razors eventually.

The options you posted ARE practical for home use, or anywhere else. That's basically the value in 'portable' sharpeners, as they can be used anywhere, under virtually any circumstance. Small hones in diamond will function as true sharpeners, way beyond 'just touching up' or microbevelling or whatever; my smaller hones are the ones I reach for 90% of the time, when I'm at home. In this respect, they're even more versatile than a dedicated 'home' bench-sized stone. All you need are two hands; no bench required.


David

 

[bgentry]

David, I respectfully disagree. At a minimum you are making it harder on yourself by using very small stones/plates for an "everywhere" system. I don't doubt that *YOU* get really nice results with yours; but you have lots of practice and have gravitated towards a small system for your own reasons. I think that most people do better with bigger stones than smaller. I can speak for myself and say that I absolutely do better with bigger stones.

For systems like the SharpMaker, I think they are great for a somewhat portable system, but I didn't talk about them because of all the talk above about needing a level horizontal surface, etc. I carry my SharpMaker in my bag and use it at work more than I use it at home. But that's not "the field".

As for what do I recommend? I've used a lot of the stone types on the market and I like the 8 x 3" DMT DiaSharps the best. The Norton Crystolon gets high marks for value, but it doesn't go fine enough for a very refined edge. Ditto with the Norton India. People with skills can get good edges from the India stones, but I had AWFUL luck with them when I was ramping up my sharpening skills. Now I do ok with the India stones, but I don't use them for much.

I like waterstones too, but I'm still building my skills with them and they are about the most space, time, and labor intensive stone type that I know of. So they are the opposite of a "field" sharpener.

Brian.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I'm not advocating relying only on smaller options. Instead, all I'm saying is one doesn't have to rely on bench stones to get sizeable work done in an emergency, or away from home and workshop; nor should the smaller options be discounted as ineffective in such uses as re-bevelling for most commonly-sized & used blades (this is my main point).

Bench hones are nice, and I have a few that are 6" or larger; I also use large sheets of wet/dry or sanding belts laid flat similarly. I use these larger options occasionally, but still just a fraction of the time I spend sharpening my blades. A skill set built on using stone in one hand and blade in the other lends itself easily to working on the larger hones (an 8" hone will seem a luxury, in fact). But the opposite can get difficult for many, if one builds their skills around the long, sweeping strokes used on larger hones, and can't see how any significant sharpening could possibly be done on anything smaller; it's entirely a difference of perspective that will work in one's favor, or mess with one's head, depending upon what they're accustomed to using. The idea that relatively small hones are only 'touch-up' sharpeners is a misconception, as this only depends on what tools one has built their skills upon. I've proven this to myself dozens of times, mainly to find out just how useful smaller hones can actually be as 'field sharpeners' (I also had doubts at one time). This was the topic of the thread, after all; a true field sharpener should be something that will be quickly at hand and relied upon for fixing serious damage or any other work, if or when it's really needed. To me, that's incentive to learn to use what may only be in one's pocket, and the only option available in a time of real need.


David

 

[Mountain_Man_]

The options you posted ARE practical for home use, or anywhere else. That's basically the value in 'portable' sharpeners, as they can be used anywhere, under virtually any circumstance. Small hones in diamond will function as true sharpeners, way beyond 'just touching up' or microbevelling or whatever; my smaller hones are the ones I reach for 90% of the time, when I'm at home. In this respect, they're even more versatile than a dedicated 'home' bench-sized stone. All you need are two hands; no bench required.


David

That is exactly what I wanted to hear and was my thought process from the beginning. I could buy both the benchstones AND a portable option. Or, I could buy a nice portable option that offers the options of versatility and portability.

Now I just have to decide between the Work Sharp field sharpener or the DMT credit card set.

And also thank you to everyones input, it has been very helpful!