Fighting .... Hunting for the Magic

[Dave Fulton]

There was some discussion of the "magic" of fighting on the "Equipment" thread, and I thought I'd start a new thread about it since it's a great topic. I hope that Sing and Gaucho will reitterate what they said on the other thread and possibly build upon it. I also hope that others will share their experiences and thoughts on the "magic" as well.

Defining or describing the "magic" is at least as difficult as finding it. My teacher refers to it as the "bliss" one feels when all the elements come together to form the "perfect" technique or combination. You let go of your mind, letting your body do what it's been trained to do and ENJOY it!

I'm not an aggressive person by nature and in the past the biggest obsticle to my sparring was that I had to tap into my anger to perform, and I didn't like this because I had spent most of my life learning to restrain my anger (had a lot of it growing up). My fear is not being able to control it once I tap into it and hurting someone without intending to. Also, I always feel dirty after I loose control of it.

A couple of months ago I caught what I think was a glimpse of the "magic". When I tap into my anger, I get "tunnel vision". Instead, (with the "magic") I was focused in the moment, but was aware of what was going on around me to the point that I could hear and remember conversations & comments amoung the spectators. When I tap into my anger, getting hit hurts and actually feeds my anger. However, with the "magic" I could feel it when I got hit, and knew on an intellectual level that it hurt, but the physical pain didn't come until several hours afterward. In addition, things seemed to be in slow motion at times and I was able to anticipate what my opponent was going to do and cut him off. I could also see his body being jolted by my attacks.

For me the "magic" brought out heightened senses and a strange feeling of clarity and tranquility in the midst of the fury of the moment and for a while afterwards. Strangley absent was a sense of fear or panic and the sick feeling you get when you start to come down from an adrenaline high. It's not the same as an adrenaline or endorphine high ... it goes way beyond this. It's euphoric!

It was a feeling unlike anything I've experienced before or since, but I keep searching (via the full-contact sparring) for it so I can experience it again .... and hopefully .... not only be able to turn it on whenever I need it, but to LIVE in the "magic" EVERY DAY!

This is one of the two major goals of full-contact fighting for the Full Contact Martial Arts Association ... to find the "magic" and LIVE IN IT!

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton



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Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."




[This message has been edited by Dave Fulton (edited 01-18-2000).]

 

[Gaucho]

OK Here Goes Nothing...

Dave and Sing,
Greetings!

I'm glad that you guys brought up the "magic" that can occur while sparring, because in my opinion learning to turn that mind state on at will is what reality training is all about.

The "magic" happened for me for the first time when I was a teenager. I had been formally training in Fu Jow/ Hung Gar for 4-5 yrs at that point...

One day I was distracted while on the street- extremely stupid in my neighborhood- and let myself be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I was jumped by a gang of five older guys in an alley, two of which turned out to have knives. Now, fighting and being attacked by gangs were common occurences where I grew up, so one became adept after a while at judging if the situation was really bad, or just some macho posturing bullsh*t.

Let me tell you, when I saw the looks on the faces of the a**holes surrounding me, it was instantly clear that this could be the very last mistake of my short life. I was scared sh*tless! But when the leader and the guy behind me pulled their blades, something weird happened in my head and everything suddenly became crystalline. I could see everything all at once and it was actually simple to take them out- I just knew how each of them was going to move- it seemed even before they did- and could therefore move faster than they did. I think the whole thing only lasted less than a minute.

Afterwards, oh MAN! BIGTIME SHAKES!, and I almost puked. But I never, ever forgot that feeling. And it has since kicked in at other critical times. In fact, even to this day, some twenty five years since I first experienced the magic, I still find that multiple attacker sparring is the most likely to trigger this state for me- my brain just must go right back to that alley.

Over the years, I've come to believe that when you're fighting several opponents at once, you have so little time to think that you simply react instinctively- using everything you have- to the flow of combat. I think that this level of stress flicks some ancient switch in your brain to on, and all of a sudden you can somehow feel attacks coming from your blindside, see everything at once, evade and counter faster than you thought possible. Everything is fast and yet slow at the same time- like the eye of a hurricane.

I find it very hard to describe this state of being and do it any justice. It really does go beyond just adrenaline. The best I can do is to say that you feel completely alive and in the moment. Everything that is you is focused right there, right now. Those of you who have ever been in the "zone" playing a sport- well it's almost the same feeling- but without the acute life and death overtones.

Live blade sparring with gear will also often trigger this magic state for me, which is why I do it. I figure that the more I can groove this neuropathway in my brain, the more likely it is to be triggered again if I ever really need it. I can think of no better reason to train all-out.

So go, find the magic for yourself...its out there.

Mario

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Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.


ps. Thanks Kev!

[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 01-18-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 01-18-2000).]

 

[SlayerPlayer]

Dave,
It is good to hear that others have experienced this magic that you so well describe. I couldn't have described it any better. And yes it seems to add a sort of mysticism to the martial arts for those who have experience this sensation.

I have literally time warped and actually saw things and bodies move in slow motion, or did I speed up as I saw the punches and kicks float aimlessly by me as if I had all the time in the world to react. I believe this to be a heightened sense due to the certain types of stimuli the body receives in response to various conditions.

The flight or fight system, which is part of our automonic nervous system is in part responsible for such experiences. This system when stimulated will release adrenalin and endorphine which when kicked in will turbo boost our systems so that we can do things not normally thought of. The example of the lady picking or lifting up a car to pull her child from up under it for example.

I have been facinated by this phenonomen, and have termed this as being in the zone. There are other aspects of this magic I call being in the zone that has amazed me in my training such as spontaneous anticipation of my opponets intentions and moves, and therby responding appropiately. After a few times of experiencing this I stop dismissing this as maybe I'm a little crazy or something to that matter. I'm careful about who I mention this to because frankly they think Oh boy here comes one of those martail arts fables again.

I have since then learned sound meditation techniques that help me achieve this state of mind so that when I spar I can get into the zone as fast as possible. This zone goes way beyond the sparring may I add, it has become a intracal part of my life now. It has heightened my overall awareness, and on the opposite side of the scale has kept me from over reacting, that calmness you describe.

There are other aspects of being in the zone such as moving your chi to project or to protect the areas being struck to dull the pain. And what about the snake eyes which allows one to see and scan rapid movement. All these factors come into play while being in the zone.

I am so fascinated at what the human body is capable of doing that it makes training in the martial art a wonderful thing to do. It brings magic to ones life.

So for now Peace Out and train hard....

 

[Gaucho]

Dave,

As I think about the times that I have entered the "magic" state during sparring- as opposed to during real life encounters- I have to agree with you that there is no post-epinephrine shakes, etc. Just a tremendous feeling of well-being like the endorphin rush after a cross-country ski race, for instance, taken to the "N"th degree. So, clearly, when you fight for your life, there is the epinephrine rush, but if you're lucky there is also this other mind-body thing happening that we are calling the magic. Very interesting.

I don't believe that this magic state is meant to be lived in all the time, however. I think that while in this state, one is hypermetabolic. That is, one is expending enormous amounts of bodily resources. So, if you stayed there all the time, I believe that you would seriously shorten your lifespan- literally burn out. I believe that that is why we were designed/evolved to go into this state only at need.

Oops! My teleology button must have somehow gotten turned on

Mario

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Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.

 

[Kev]

Gaucho...

The easiest way I know to copy and paste some text is to...

Highlight what you want to copy(click and drag your cursor over the text). Hold the the Ctrl key and hit the "c". Go where you want to paste the text(put cursor in the spot). Hold the Ctrl key and hit the "v" key. Ouila!

Oh yeah.... nice post!!
~Kev


[This message has been edited by Kev (edited 01-18-2000).]

 

[sing]

Not much to add to what you folks posted... the "magic, the "zone" or what the Japanese call "mushin" (no-mind). For this to occur, I think the prerequisite is that a level of skills has been attained and integrated into the body's memory. In sparring you no longer have to think, you perceive and the body responds immediately with the right move. I tend to think "mushin" for most modern martial artists is achieved in sparring. In that state, there is a lack of thinking, a lack of emotion, just the incredible sense that body can do almost no wrong in responding and acting to the moment. I would also hazard to say that this state occurs only with partner whose skill level is roughly equal or less than one's own. On encountering someone of signifcantly more advanced skills, one pick up on that and will begin to experience emotions and intellectualizing to figure out how to get through or respond better. This emoting/intellectualizing is the antithesis of mushin.

A perfect example of this was when I competed in my last open karate tournament, the New England Open, in 1980. I was 125 lbs and fought the lightweight division which was a 150 and under. All I can remember is that I won the lightweight championship after 5 or 6 bouts and the sense that I could do no wrong. However, the "champions" of the eliminations were put into the "superstar competition" which included "seeded" top ten players in the New England region. In the superstar competition, I competed against a bigger and more skilled top ten, player from New York. On his first move, he round kicked me in the head and I barely saw, never mind responded to the kick. That immediately got my mind going. On his second move, I saw him go for the kick again and ducked. He immediately adjusted, kicked low and snapped my head back again. I don't even remember the third point, except that I had my head snapped back again. The difference in the lightweight eliminations and the superstar competition was that I was totally outclassed, outsized, outspeed. I tried but couldn't figure how to handle him and he totally blew away my mental/physical state.

In a real fight sitaution, I think very few, except "combat seasoned" fighters, experience mushin. However, trained fighters or experienced streetfighters may experienced "zanhin" (continuing combat awareness). This is to say that you experience the adrenaline rush, you experience anger and even fear, but you harness rather than be overcome by them. You are thinking as the situation develops, even when it's happening, you can act/react and maintain an awareness of what's going around you. You almost have a "panoramic" view around you. As teen and a young adult, I had my share of fights. In the early ones, I experienced "tunnel vision." I think the emotions and the adrenaline kicked in and overwhelmed the senses. However, in later fights, I think I developed more of a "zanshin" in that I was aware of most of what were happening around me, even when I was engaged with my opponent. The adrenaline and emotions would not overcome me until I was safe in distance and time from the encounter. Then, only then, I would get the wobbly knees and shakes...

Oh, Slayerplayer mentioned achieving a like state in meditation where time is sort of warped. Yes, that can happen. A large part of achieving that state is letting go of emotions associated with "wanting" or "pushing away", same as in that state in sparring. Everything is fine as is and one just acts/reacts to what's happening in the moment. A good although tough to understand (without a zen background) discussion of this is Soho Takuan's "The Unfettered Mind." The book is basically and exchange of letters between Takuan, A zen monk, and Yagyu Munemori, the headmaster of the Skinkage Ryu style of swordsmanship and the officially adopted instructor to the inital Tokugawa Shogunate. Takuan reputedly also communicated with Miyamoto Musashi.

sing

AKTI #A000356

[This message has been edited by sing (edited 01-19-2000).]

[This message has been edited by sing (edited 01-19-2000).]

 

[V.Oller]

Dave always comes up with the best topics! I too have felt the "crystal" feeling that you guys are talking about. With me it has only happened when it was the "real" thing. When as they say the "chips are down". Probably one of the best times for "magic" to happen!

I rarely have it happen in sparring. I don't know if this is because subconciously I know it's not for real or because I'm analyzing the situation too much! Guess I have to keep working on it!

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Stay sharp and be Safe!

[This message has been edited by V.Oller (edited 01-19-2000).]

 

[Dave Fulton]

Originally posted by V.Oller:
Dave always comes up with the best topics! ... I rarely have it happen in sparring. I don't know if this is because subconciously I know it's not for real or because I'm analyzing the situation too much! Guess I have to keep working on it!

Thanks for the compliment V!

If you're not feeling it in sparring, I'd bet it's because you are trying to analyze the situation too much instead of letting your mind go. This is because you're either sparring people of a higher skill level than your own which is forcing you to think instead of letting go, or because you're just not letting go.

I can't find it now (maybe it was in the "Equipment" thread), but someone else said that you don't experience it when you spar someone who is way ahead of you in skill because you end up thinking instead of letting the mind go. This theory makes sense to me because as Sing said, the Japanese call this state "mushin" which means "no mind" implying that you don't think. Also, because until recently I was always the least experienced one at my school (not just my current school, but every school I've ever sparred at) so I was ALWAYS fighting people of much higher skill levels than my own. Only recently did I spar with someone of my own skill level, and THAT'S when I experienced it.

We've started to get some new people into our club recently, so my hope is that I'll soon have some cannon fodder ... um ... I mean ... "sparring partners" (yeah that's it!)

that I can spar with and let go, so I can feel the "magic" again

Good luck and keep at it!

Sincerely,

Dave Fulton



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Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."

 

[Gaucho]

Dave,

You and Sing are right on target here, my friends.

As I look back over my years of training in various and sundry systems, I realize that experiencing that magical state for the first time while sparring using a new system signals for me that I've "mastered" the new system to the degree that I can fight with it without having to concentrate on every move. It just flows. Its like when you finally start thinking in a new language- it becomes infinitely quicker and easier to hold a conversation.

Mario

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Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.

 

[ohoisin]

sometimes when I meditate, or spar or am in a dangerous situation, I get a strong proximity sense, almost as if I can feel my chi interacting with the environment and others around me, every thing is heighted, especially my reflex speed. The first time i truly remember feeling it was when someone threw a biliard ball at me. I was turning as it came towards my back and I did a kenpo speed block sending it off in a wild direction, but the wierd thing is i never saw it until after I struck it. Te whole thing happened so fast I didn't even really feel it at the time and only afterwards had a memory of te ball invading my proximity sense. THis happened again a few other times. and something about it reminds me of the feeling i got when catching shurkin and knives when I was first trying out my martial arts skills. btw I no longer train in catching sharp objects anda few cuts to the hand.

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Sanity is overrated, simply a moonbeam spilling pearls on a dark and treacherous sea.
j . p hissom

 

[Gaucho]

Ohoisin,

Greetings! Its funny you should mention that proximity sense.

Most solo training sessions, I will train with my hanging targets in the dark as well as with the lights on. Obviously I can't see the De Cuerda or swinging ball in the dark room, but somehow I just know where they are and am able to hit them nearly as well as with the lights on. I suspect that this is a combination of the outward expansion of my chi, along with hearing, and tactile sensation- feeling the air vibration of the moving target against my skin. Its an interesting phenomenon. And not so hard to develop if you are willing to accept a few cuts and bruises along the way

.

Mario

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Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.

 

[ohoisin]

I have light sensitve eyes, so spent many days in my childhood with my eyes closed due to the bright sun, eventually trying to walk or do an activity without opening my eyes became a sort of game, the sening of an object becam better and better with my "blind" practice. THere is the question of intutuion, I am a very intuitive learner and follow that jumpy path in many mental activities, There may be a part of the brain we have learned to listen to that others have written off as they trust more and more on civilized theory. The brain takesin much more than we realize conciously, and weeds out that which it does not feel is important, in certain situations our brains may have learned the static electric, or air currents around and object, vibrations of sound and air moving in relation to our sense of hearing and touch are important and the brain then calls our other sense to bear on the object for further response. Just a slightly uncivilized theory.

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Sanity is overrated, simply a moonbeam spilling pearls on a dark and treacherous sea.
j . p hissom