Fighting knives... What a dumb idea!

S

Stiletto Raggio

Joined
Jan 29, 2000
Messages
546
After carefully thinking this through, knives are pretty terrible choices to carry into actual combat (meaning planned offensive manuevers) for the purpose of fighiting. Get a Short Sword!

Solldier of Fortune did an article about them a little while ago, and the listed an incredible amount of benefits. Included in designs that I would classify as true short swords are kukris, wakizashis and my personal favorite, the Gladius.

In fact, when funding permits it, I will have a Gladius made of modern materials to make it functional yet beautiful. Now i just need someone to train me on how to properly use a gladius.

Anyone know why large knives have seemingly taken the place of small sword (and there is a big difference). Any makers willing to make one for me, hmmm....?
 
I think the transition from large knife to short sword is fluently, and so are the uses. I find it simply to much hassle to carry a short sword for self-defense (although I did carry a large machete concealed at times, and legally of course). A knife is a more maneuverable, better concealable and more universally usable weapon. Try passing off a short sword as a tool for cutting fruit...
As for the gladius, try Kris Cutlery. They offer a high quality, working Gladius replica. Go into Filipino martial arts or HACA-style fighting disciplines if you want to learn how to use it effectively. http://www.invis.com/kriscutlery/ http://www.thehaca.com/
 
Knives suck as weapons. Canes, baseball bats and all manner of common items are better. That said, if thats what you have close by and for me that is likely well...

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Roger Blake
 
Knives suck as weapons!!!!??? Nah, too easy... I won't even touch that. Things may get to hot here...

As to the original question posted, you have to define what you mean by "combat". In the cities where laws are strict and carrying a gladius strung to your hip is guaranteed to get you a trip to the Police Station, folders and smaller fixed blades rein supreme. For soldiers, some work would be better served with folders, while other work may definitely benefit from longer, short swort type blades. You could even add tomahawks to that list. They are still functional weapons, even used in the Vietnam war. If I was in a situation where I was to face someone head on, given equal training on both types of weapons, I would opt for a kris most likely!!!! I heard a story about a group that took on American soldiers years and years and years ago. After howling and screaming for hours they grouped in a wedge form and charced down the hill into the American camp. The tactic was to split the camp up due to this enormous wedge running through the camp and continue to press forward, necer stopping. The first guy may hack off a soldier's arm, while the next guy connects with a slash across the chest, the third guy gets the head, the fourth guy gets a leg.... and so on. This was a true story, ans the entire camp was wiped out. Short swords are definitely functionable weapons, when used in the right circumstances.

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"Come What May..."


[This message has been edited by Crayola (edited 07-14-2000).]
 
In close quarter combat a knife can be a tremendous weapon. In the right hands it will finish an attacker in seconds.
Also I have handled many fighting Bowies that are larger than some Kukris so where does a large knife stop and a small sword begin?
Plus, where in the world can you carry a small sword legally where you could use it to protect yourself? Certainly not anywhere in the U.S. or Canada.
 
The F/S survival knife, better known as the Commando knife/dagger was not that well thought of when first battle proven. That is because it was issued to every Tom, Dick and Harry. The tip broke when used as a utility knife, which is what most soldiers used a knife for.
Fighting knives in combat hardly register in casualty statistics and are useually bracketed with clubs and broken bottles.

I would place the Kukri, Machete, Parang, and KarBar/assault rifle bayonet/utility knife as the real fighting knives of this age. These are the blades that have shed the most blood in combat. The large kitchen knife has probably done the most damage/deaths in urban "combat".

Please note that all of them are utility knifes most often used by the untrained in knife fighting. Soldiers fight with guns, anything after that is base suvival instinct.
 
Oh please let somebody try that wedge idea while i'm manning the machine gun.
smile.gif


Guns are often superior weapons to knives, except in ultra short range combat. However, as someone who has seen (and felt, ouch!) the damage a knife can do, i would never venture to call them useless weapons.

I think size depends on your style and training....And, of course, legality.

James

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The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
 
Here is a dry test drill for those who qestion the range of a knife attack.

Defender with back to the attacker, ready with holstered pistol or slung rifle, or any realistic relaxed state of weapon carry. ENSURE ALL WEAPONS ARE UNLAODED AND EMPTY.
The attacker charges at 5m, 10m, 15m with a resounding war cry. On arrival he gives the defender a good shove. No need to have a training/rubber knife, but nice if you have one.
The defenders reaction on hearing the war cry is to turn, ready his weapon and bring it to a position to defend.

Then think how good the reaction would be after two hours in the cold and wet on stag duty when you wouldn't be expecting it. Thats why there needs to be two on stag duty. Good exercise, but try not to get too carried away and end up with someone crying.
 
GREENJACKET - I saw a film on this very drill in the academy. The distance needed for the average cop to draw and hit (with "simunition") was an amazing 21 feet! Granted, the knife guy was a professional knife fighter and the cop wasn't the fastest draw in the west, but we all saw what could happen if we took the knife lightly. It was a real jaw-dropper!
 
Copper, if its the video I think it is, its a good one.
I have a cousin who is as mad as a hatter. He is also a top surgeon having been one of the youngest ever to qualify. He did it whilst working for a charity hospital in Durban, South Africa. His job was to sew up the machete victims of domestic arguments in the townships. They kept him so busy, when I met him on a weekend off he behaved like a member of Mash - high as a kite. (That was in the early eighties, he now practices near you
wink.gif
)
 
The good old Tueller drill - and this is with a duty holster and a person expecting to be attacked!

Think how long it would take you to unlimber your PDW in it's IWB holster under your shirt, fanny pack, pager pal, or something else...

A knife is a serious tool well used in self defense - there are too many people killed each year by kitchen knives wielded by untrained people to disprove this.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
First of all, let me 'fess up and admit I've never been in actual "combat", i.e. armed hostilities; however I did go through Ranger training and have dabbled in the martial arts for twenty-something years. No, I would not generally pick a knife as my primary offensive weapon against an enemy armed with rifles, machine guns etc.; but a knife is easy to carry, low maintainence, functional in a variety of uses, and gives an added option of choice of weapons depending on the situation. There may be specific instances when a knife IS the best choice.
Also, what do you mean by "fighting knife". To me there are the large, slashing type knives, with blades over 7"; there are knives designed as "fighters", with blades 4-7 inches; and there are personal defense knives.
To me, a knife is like my AmEx card: I never leave home without it. If nobody attacks me that day, I can always whittle.
 
Sounds to me like the Raggiator is wanting to compare the usefulness of a short sword vs. a knife in a combat/attack situation. I think the fact that most are carried as backups, and not primary weapons put the thing in perspective. I mean bayonets are basically short swords, so they have been utilized. But in todays hail of gunfire type of military situation, I can't imagine a bunch of running/jumping/rolling/crawling Soldiers with big blades strapped to their side. Kind of going backwards in weaponry, isn't that?

Brandon

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I've got the schizophrenic blues
No I don't
Yes I do...
 
Fighting Knives?.
biggrin.gif
.

..Not really a BAD idea, IF you are trained to use 'em correctly, and have the will-power to do so.

Compared to firearms, knives don't "jam", don't run out of ammo, don't make much noise, don't cost as much, won't shoot an "innocent person" by accident, and generally can be carried more places than firearms.

I think of my Cold Steel Master Tanto, Cold Steel Trail Master Bowie, AND Gerber "BMF" as very capable "Fighting Knives".

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Dann Fassnacht
Aberdeen, WA
glockman99@hotmail.com
ICQ# 53675663
 
I cant say because I never actually had to

but ....

A far as militery training My drills in 90' 91' taught us that the M16 was everything and if you were close enough for hand to hand someone F.... Um ... messed up. They did not advocate the use of a knife or even the bayonet attached to your weapon, (even though you run that damn long a** bayonet training course until vomiting exhustion several times.) THey told us we were better off with our E tool, sharpened on one edge and hack away, Maybe there is something to the Kukri. Same principle. Forget form. Get in and hack.

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ALex

http://home.att.net./~a.boriqua
 
To be on the wrong end of a bayonet charge even on exercise is not funny.
Wrong end of a kukri charge even less so. You get that little twinge that one of those hill people might just go "what the heck" and lob off your head - with a big smile of couse.
 
I am not sure whether my query was misunderstood, but what the point I meant to make was this: Given the fact that people like Mad Dog, Newt Livesay and our beloved Lynn Thompson are busy making knives that have foot long blades and weigh a pound and a half, why haven't we seen more short swords in the true sense of the word?

One of our coleagues commented that carrying a gladius around would land you in the slammer. And where, pray tell, would you get away with carrying a Trail Master? I was referring to "Combat" as opposed to "defensive" knives, edged wepons that one would carry when intentionally entering a physical confrontation. Everyone knows that small fixed blade or normal sized "tactical" folders rule the roost for every day carry, unless you live in the jungles of Brazil.

Somebody mentioned that it seemed like a step back in weaponry for soldiers to carry short swords. Let me point out that just because an idea is old doesn't mean it is ineffective. Short swords are superior close range weapons that don't jam, run out of ammo or misfire. They also have a utility purpose, brush clearing and chopping being a couple of them.

And everyone knows that bayonets are crap, even the 250 dollar jobbies that they are issuing now.

To summarize, if you are gong to go to the expense and weight of carrying a large blade, why not make it one that gives you, for lack of a better description, a real edge in a life or death fight.
 
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