Figure 4 deadfall ?

P

pit man

Joined
Nov 2, 2005
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I can make various snare traps, spring snares etc,with no problems but have been trying to make a fig 4 deadfall and have failed miserably.
I can't seem to get the weight to be on the balance points as it should be is there a trick to doing these that somebody can explain?

Any hints please!!!!
 
pit man said:
I can make various snare traps, spring snares etc,with no problems but have been trying to make a fig 4 deadfall and have failed miserably.
I can't seem to get the weight to be on the balance points as it should be is there a trick to doing these that somebody can explain?

Any hints please!!!!
Click to expand...

It would help if you give us more specifics. What exactly is happening?

Doc
 
pit man said:
I can make various snare traps, spring snares etc,with no problems but have been trying to make a fig 4 deadfall and have failed miserably.
I can't seem to get the weight to be on the balance points as it should be is there a trick to doing these that somebody can explain?

Any hints please!!!!
Click to expand...

my name is barrabas and I have a deadfall problem:o . I too share your pain. I just cant seem to get everything to lock together properly, it wont support wait, it wont even hook up right. I follow the directions yet it always turns into crap. I said to heck with it and build a piute.
 
Make sure your edges are nice and crisp and it is easy to make one that will hang together.. Once you get the knack it's pretty easy to get these working.
 
barrabas74 said:
my name is barrabas and I have a deadfall problem:o . I too share your pain. I just cant seem to get everything to lock together properly, it wont support wait, it wont even hook up right. I follow the directions yet it always turns into crap. I said to heck with it and build a piute.
Click to expand...

Hey barrabas,

We've talked about this before. I'm sorry to hear you're still having problems. If you or pit man have a scanner (or some other means) perhaps you can post the instructions you are using. It's pretty difficult to see what your problem is over the internet. It's funny how different people have different problems. I find the Paiute harder to set up than the figure 4.

BTW, use the search function at the top and type in 'deadfall' - 7 pages of stuff comes up. Not all trap related, though.

Anyway, don't give up on your problem. We'll figure out a way to straighten it out. Coote mentions, in one of his posts, an alternate method for construction. He says it's easier to set up. You might want to try it.

Doc
 
I think I have figured my problem out, hard to describe in words but I'll let you know if I am right!
Also do most of you use a saw on a SAK to cut the notches,I just used a fixed blade and struggled at times!
 
I did a quick write up on traps on my webpage:
http://www.geocities.com/underwatersniper/traps.html
I dont know if this will help a lot because its a little vague. Fig 4 his hard to describe with words.
One thing that may help is engage the diagnal on the verticle piece, apply the weight and hold the trap at the pivot of the two sticks. Next use the free hand to set the trigger.
And yes I use a saw to cut the notches. Any more I dont worry about cutting the notches in a triangle. I just cut 2 grooves with the saw and pop the chunk of wood out with a knife.
If you scroll down to the bottom of this page you will see what I mean:
http://www.geocities.com/underwatersniper/knives.html
 
BTW... the fig 4 and 2 stick deadfall are my favorites to play with as they can be made with all natural materials. You are not relying on have cordage with you.
 
Since you haven't come up with specifics, regarding your problems, one thing that occurred to me is the way you cut your notches. In some books and a recent magazine, it showed the notches being cut square, like below:

Figure4trap-Lsway.jpg



If you do it this way, it won't release very well. Rather cut them like below:

Fig.jpg

Also, you will see Coote's modification by tying the diagonal to the horizontal with a piece of short cordage. He says this makes it easier to set up. Also he recommends a split bait stick, in which the bait is jammed into the split, making the critter work the trigger harder.

If your problem is different than this, let us know. Also, pit man, you will find it is easier to make the notches with a knife, if they are cut as in the second picture, rather than square notches.

Doc
 
I have made deadfalls using the Paiute trigger and the figure four trigger. The Paiute is a good trigger, but I always seem to use a figure four nowadays. I have only ever caught rodents in a deadfall. So while I haven't proved these traps on bigger game, I have proved that a figure four trigger can be made sensitive enough to trap mice.

Doc has already mentioned that I like to tie my bait stick to the angled support stick. This seems to make the trigger easier to set and I think it may help to fling the bait stick clear of the trap as it fires. It also helps make sure that you can find your trigger components after the trap has gone off. The string should be kept short.

Recently Doc showed me a diagram of a deadfall trigger that looked fairly compact. After a short while it dawned on me that it was a shortened version of the traditional figure-four. I made a couple of these when I was on holiday recently.... and set them for mice. I set several traps... I supported a couple of wide deadfalls (plank of wood and a nail box) with my traditional triggers fastened with string....and I used the shortened version to support some building bricks. The plank of wood squashed a mouse (very flat), but all I got with a building brick was a mouse tail.... poor little beggar. Either the edge of the brick chopped it off...or the mouse was held by the tail so he chewed it off. I feel a bit bad about that. It goes to show that mice have fairly quick reactions....they must run off as soon as things start to move. I've had my plank-type traps go off a few times without catching anything too .... although I have caught a good number of mice in them.

Here is a pic of the shortened figure-four trigger:

FigFourShortTrigger.jpg


You will note that there isnt much of the angled stick hanging over the the vertical support stick. This helps ensure that the trap is sensitive. The trigger in the picture is supporting a building brick.

Although you could cut the various notches with a saw, I recommend that the mating surfaces of these triggers are as smooth as possible. So if I cut a notch with a saw I might clean up the cut with a sharp blade afterwards.
 
pit man and barrabas74;

While I was out hiking this afternoon, I was thinking about your problem. My answer: http://www.survival.com/traps.html and order Volume 5, Traps and Trapping. It's a very good DVD and I'm sure it will straighten out your figure 4 problems as well as showing you quite a bit of other good stuff. Since I don't know either one of you personally, I can't say you'll love it, but I would be surprised if you didn't. Ron and Karen Hood have been teaching this stuff for a very long time and do an excellent job of it. He is very personable and it comes across in his DVD. Might be the best 22 bucks you ever spent.

Glad to see you back, coote. Now, I guess, you can speak for yourself. :)

Doc
 
Ya know, this is really something I wish somebody could show me how to do, firsthand. I appreciate all of your input and pictures...usually I can learn from stuff like that...but I think in this instance, it takes one-on-one instruction from an experienced person. Thanks , Don
 
Coldwood said:
Ya know, this is really something I wish somebody could show me how to do, firsthand. I appreciate all of your input and pictures...usually I can learn from stuff like that...but I think in this instance, it takes one-on-one instruction from an experienced person. Thanks , Don
Click to expand...


Well, if you're ever in the Hamilton, Ontario area............:)

Doc
 
You can do it Coldwood !!!! You will succeed if you are persistent.

I think it may help to consider what each of the three trigger sticks is doing.

The weight of the deadfall 'pushes down' on the top of the angled stick. This makes the angled stick want to pivot around the chisel point of the vertical stick.... but it can't because the bottom of the angled stick is caught in the notch on the bait stick. The bait stick won't let the angled stick pivot because the bait stick is notched to mate with the flat face on the vertical stick.

A nicely made trigger is a beautiful thing.

I would love to show folks how to make and use these triggers. If you are ever coming to New Zealand send me a note.......

Meanwhile you may find it useful to tie the bait stick to the angled stick as in this diagram. Keep the string short.

FigureFourTrigger-1.jpg
 
I've just been thinking about what I wrote earlier regarding the smoothness of the mating surfaces of the figure four trigger. I think what I wrote was a bit over the top.

The only mating pair of surfaces that really matter is where the bait stick hooks on to the upright support. The other two connecting surfaces can be fairly rough as long as the angles are good enough to ensure that everything sits together nicely.

And I guess it doesn't really matter if all the surfaces are rough if there isn't too much leverage exerted on to the angled stick by the deadfall weight.

I am fairly fussy about the smoothness of the surfaces, and I generally try to have a smooth 'hair trigger' effect with my deadfall triggers because mice are my target. If the animal is bigger then it may be best not to have too light a trigger because it could be set off by the wind or a bird. A bigger animal can have a trigger that is harder to fire.

I made a trigger tonight where the weight of the bait stick is almost enough to set it off. This would be far too sensitive to set outdoors for bigger animals...but pretty much ideal to set indoors for tiny mice.
 
barrabas74 said:
my name is barrabas and I have a deadfall problem:o . I too share your pain. I just cant seem to get everything to lock together properly, it wont support wait, it wont even hook up right. I follow the directions yet it always turns into crap. I said to heck with it and build a piute.
Click to expand...

I also prefer the Paiute. It takes less time to build and and is just as effective for me. Taught my 11 yr old daughter how to make one. After two demos she caught on and was doing it by herself.
 
GhostWolf said:
I also prefer the Paiute. It takes less time to build and and is just as effective for me. Taught my 11 yr old daughter how to make one. After two demos she caught on and was doing it by herself.
Click to expand...

Does someone have a diagram of the Paiute? Just curious to see what you're talking about ....
 
Okay, I can see it. It's like trying to comprehend a "snotter" on my sail boat. It doesn't seem to make for good engineering, but it does.
 
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