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file-work advice?
- Thread starter george tichbourne
- Start date
It's really difficult to tell you an angle
because of the many different patterns and
styles of file work. I can attempt to give
you an example in text and maybe a pic later
but no guarenteessss.
Some people do a lay out - measure and mark
a blade or liner or back then file. I do it
by eyeball and don't worry if somebody gets
out the dial calipers it's handmade. If somebody demands exactly and precisly and to
the thousnds. I send them elsewhere. Don't get me wrong with practice you can get very
presice but not perfect doing it with a file
by hand.
A pattern you can practice on is done with a
1/8" chain saw file and miniture round file.
Starting from where the guard would be move out the distance of the diameter of the file
(chain) and angled forward about45 deg. and
your hand about 30 deg. down. Use the end of
your thumb on your other hand against the file as a guide. File slowly and make a notch that goes about 3/4 of the way across
the back. Put the file across the back for
a gauge for moving the diameter of the file away from the edge of the notch you just filed and mark it by holding your gauge thumb
there and setting up your file the same as the first notch. Do the other side the same,
BUT make the notches oppose the opposite side. You can do one notch on one side and
then the other when you first start out if
you care to and it might be easier to guage.
After you have finsihed all the larger notches take the miniture file and go between
the larger notches and position it at right
angle to the blade and make a very small notch with the same downward angle. Very gently take off the sharp edges with fine
grit paper. You can do the same thing with
a round file and triangle file but with reversing the forward angle to the small triangle and the round file being perpenticular to the blade. This requires two triangle marks in between the round notches one forward and one back right next to the round notches and about 1'3 of the way into the edge. Practice is the
whole key before you start on a blade or do
spacers, liners or whatever. I don't know if this helped or not. I'll try to do some
pics later. I know everything is later.....
I sent pic attached to e-mail - not great but puts the script in perspective more.
goshawk
------------------
http://www.imt.net/~goshawk The race is not always to the swift, but he who hangs loose.
Don't walk in tradition just because it feels good!!!!!
[This message has been edited by goshawk (edited 03 August 1999).]
because of the many different patterns and
styles of file work. I can attempt to give
you an example in text and maybe a pic later
but no guarenteessss.
Some people do a lay out - measure and mark
a blade or liner or back then file. I do it
by eyeball and don't worry if somebody gets
out the dial calipers it's handmade. If somebody demands exactly and precisly and to
the thousnds. I send them elsewhere. Don't get me wrong with practice you can get very
presice but not perfect doing it with a file
by hand.
A pattern you can practice on is done with a
1/8" chain saw file and miniture round file.
Starting from where the guard would be move out the distance of the diameter of the file
(chain) and angled forward about45 deg. and
your hand about 30 deg. down. Use the end of
your thumb on your other hand against the file as a guide. File slowly and make a notch that goes about 3/4 of the way across
the back. Put the file across the back for
a gauge for moving the diameter of the file away from the edge of the notch you just filed and mark it by holding your gauge thumb
there and setting up your file the same as the first notch. Do the other side the same,
BUT make the notches oppose the opposite side. You can do one notch on one side and
then the other when you first start out if
you care to and it might be easier to guage.
After you have finsihed all the larger notches take the miniture file and go between
the larger notches and position it at right
angle to the blade and make a very small notch with the same downward angle. Very gently take off the sharp edges with fine
grit paper. You can do the same thing with
a round file and triangle file but with reversing the forward angle to the small triangle and the round file being perpenticular to the blade. This requires two triangle marks in between the round notches one forward and one back right next to the round notches and about 1'3 of the way into the edge. Practice is the
whole key before you start on a blade or do
spacers, liners or whatever. I don't know if this helped or not. I'll try to do some
pics later. I know everything is later.....
I sent pic attached to e-mail - not great but puts the script in perspective more.
goshawk
------------------
http://www.imt.net/~goshawk The race is not always to the swift, but he who hangs loose.
Don't walk in tradition just because it feels good!!!!!
[This message has been edited by goshawk (edited 03 August 1999).]
- Joined
- Apr 19, 1999
- Messages
- 3,560
Before I start out filing I use graph paper to lay out the pattern on 1/4" square paper.
To standardize everything I let 1/4"represent the blade width and with a standard spacing of 1/4" between filemarks.
Try starting with half moon marks every half inch on one side of the "blade" then half moon marks on the other side in between the marks previously made on the first side.
Try putting small triangle marks between the half moon marks.
This is a simple pattern but it gives you an idea of layout.
When I get ready to layout on the blade I spray the spine with layout blue and scribe lines with spacing equal to the width of the blade. Depending on the pattern I have chosen I prenotch the places where I will be using a round file because the round files tend to skate around a lot without pre notching.
Pre notching is done with a dremel tool and a fine cutoff wheel, not too deeply though.
Filing at an angle about 30 degrees below the horizontal exposes more metal when viewed from the side and gives more glitter when the filework is polished.
Angling the file forward or backward makes a more interesting shaped mark in some cases.
When the filework is finished sand or polish it to see how it will look. It is always easier to polish the filework before heat treating(metal is softer)
Rebuff after heat treating and before handle assembly. Sometimes leaving the dark heat treat discolouration in the hollows accents the file work, sometimes it detracts from the appearance.
------------------
george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com
To standardize everything I let 1/4"represent the blade width and with a standard spacing of 1/4" between filemarks.
Try starting with half moon marks every half inch on one side of the "blade" then half moon marks on the other side in between the marks previously made on the first side.
Try putting small triangle marks between the half moon marks.
This is a simple pattern but it gives you an idea of layout.
When I get ready to layout on the blade I spray the spine with layout blue and scribe lines with spacing equal to the width of the blade. Depending on the pattern I have chosen I prenotch the places where I will be using a round file because the round files tend to skate around a lot without pre notching.
Pre notching is done with a dremel tool and a fine cutoff wheel, not too deeply though.
Filing at an angle about 30 degrees below the horizontal exposes more metal when viewed from the side and gives more glitter when the filework is polished.
Angling the file forward or backward makes a more interesting shaped mark in some cases.
When the filework is finished sand or polish it to see how it will look. It is always easier to polish the filework before heat treating(metal is softer)
Rebuff after heat treating and before handle assembly. Sometimes leaving the dark heat treat discolouration in the hollows accents the file work, sometimes it detracts from the appearance.
------------------
george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com
- Joined
- Dec 14, 1998
- Messages
- 4,870
DK
File work is a eye thing for me . I used to lay it out and mess around making myself crazy.. Now I use a dremal tool and a wide selection of carbide inverted cone cutters and ball cutters. It just becomes much easier after you learn the direction the cutters will pull, cutting in the climb mode or conventional mode.. If I was just learning I would chose this method over files. Also I use almost all double cut style cutters. They leave a better finish and dont pull near as bad as the single cut cutters. The lay out I use is simple. A black magic marker and my eye, I make dots on the liner or backspine and just cut rough first, then finsh and straighten it all out. It is much faster and I have learned that perfection is not a good word for file work.
To finish I take milk bottles cut round disks
then I have 3 different sizes and thicknesses. I layer them to get stiffer flex and lighter flex add sandpaper of different grits to get into the file work and clean it up .. I buff it before and after heat treat to make it look good.
This dosent explain everything about this proceedure!
It take years of practice to get it right but if you take this route you will be able to file work in a few mins, compaired to hours with files. Its just something you have to find out for yourself... to get it right.. either method...
GOOD LUCK
------------------
Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
Take a look!!!
[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 06 August 1999).]
File work is a eye thing for me . I used to lay it out and mess around making myself crazy.. Now I use a dremal tool and a wide selection of carbide inverted cone cutters and ball cutters. It just becomes much easier after you learn the direction the cutters will pull, cutting in the climb mode or conventional mode.. If I was just learning I would chose this method over files. Also I use almost all double cut style cutters. They leave a better finish and dont pull near as bad as the single cut cutters. The lay out I use is simple. A black magic marker and my eye, I make dots on the liner or backspine and just cut rough first, then finsh and straighten it all out. It is much faster and I have learned that perfection is not a good word for file work.
To finish I take milk bottles cut round disks
then I have 3 different sizes and thicknesses. I layer them to get stiffer flex and lighter flex add sandpaper of different grits to get into the file work and clean it up .. I buff it before and after heat treat to make it look good.
This dosent explain everything about this proceedure!
It take years of practice to get it right but if you take this route you will be able to file work in a few mins, compaired to hours with files. Its just something you have to find out for yourself... to get it right.. either method...
GOOD LUCK
------------------
Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
Take a look!!!
[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 06 August 1999).]
Goshawk,thanks for the angle/degree tip,great
file work pic.hope to be there one day!
George T. I really like the graph paper lay out idea,i'm a firm believer in proper design on paper first,steel second.
Darrel, guess i'll have to buy another dremel tool(loaned it out). Maybe the newer vari-speed type?
Thank you all for sharing . DK
------------------
Pretty nice,huh?
file work pic.hope to be there one day!
George T. I really like the graph paper lay out idea,i'm a firm believer in proper design on paper first,steel second.
Darrel, guess i'll have to buy another dremel tool(loaned it out). Maybe the newer vari-speed type?
Thank you all for sharing . DK
------------------
Pretty nice,huh?
Goshawk,thanks for the angle/degree tip,great
file work pic.hope to be there one day!
George T. I really like the graph paper lay out idea,i'm a firm believer in proper design on paper first,steel second.
Darrel, guess i'll have to buy another dremel tool(loaned it out). Maybe the newer vari-speed type?
Thank you all for sharing . DK
------------------
Pretty nice,huh?
file work pic.hope to be there one day!
George T. I really like the graph paper lay out idea,i'm a firm believer in proper design on paper first,steel second.
Darrel, guess i'll have to buy another dremel tool(loaned it out). Maybe the newer vari-speed type?
Thank you all for sharing . DK
------------------
Pretty nice,huh?
There should be some Filework Patterns and the description of them listed in the article section soon, as I sent them into Blade Forum last week. It is a matter of practice, the best material to practice on that I've found is Aluminum bar stock.
------------------
Curtis Wilson
------------------
Curtis Wilson
- Joined
- Dec 14, 1998
- Messages
- 4,870
DK
Yes a vary speed dremal is a must. I use the standard ones.. then add an old sewing machine foot pedal to have both hands free to move and hold the work. I have a couple graver vices but nothing is like having your hands free to move the part.. :]
I have just become use to the foot pedal . Now the speeds and feeds for the tooling is stamped in my brain kinda hahahha
------------------
Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
Take a look!!!
Yes a vary speed dremal is a must. I use the standard ones.. then add an old sewing machine foot pedal to have both hands free to move and hold the work. I have a couple graver vices but nothing is like having your hands free to move the part.. :]
I have just become use to the foot pedal . Now the speeds and feeds for the tooling is stamped in my brain kinda hahahha
------------------
Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
Take a look!!!