Filework on a Chopper??

Nic Ramirez

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Apr 17, 2003
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I'm in the process of designing a 9" woods knife (about 7 1/4" blade) and the option for filework along the spine came up.

Now I was thinking. Do you think that this would weaken the design?

I would also like to get your ideas and input on the design that we came up with.

She's gonna be in D2:D

proto.jpg
 
I think the file work is up to you. I've seen higher end camp knives with filework. I don't think it would weaken the design unless the filework had sharp 90 degree cuts. In all reality the grooves cut for the thumb ramp would weaken it more than the decorative filework on the spine. But it comes down to personal preference. I like filework.
 
That much file work on the spine is good if:

1. Your knife(including the spine) has been heat treated at quite a high HRC, inorder to make the blade bend and not break in two.

2. If your knife has a false upper edge so the knife does not break at the tip while bending.

File-work will weaken the design, it's just that in certain instances that's what you want to do, in a strategic manner, in order to prevent your knife's blade from breaking into two.

Same reason why you heat treat the spine at a lower RC than the edge.
Hope that helps.
 
Hi Nic, Here's my $0.02 of opinion on the design and filework in general. This is just my opinion and of course YMMV.

On the design in general:
1. Overall, I like the design A LOT!!! :cool:
2. I find that a very nice blade size and shape. It looks good for the kind of general rough-housing that a woods blade will sooner or later receive. It's also small enough to be worn on a belt without whacking your leg too badly, especially if worn in a medium- to high-ride sheath. I'm assuming the blade will have a flat-ground or convex-ground primary bevel (not hollow ground) for robustness of the blade.
2. The narrowing dimension of the flat running along the spine of the blade is a nice aesthetic touch and makes the blade look light and lively, whereas a fixed-dimension flats (as on most commercial saber-ground blades) tend to make the blade look heavier and stodgier.
3. I like the shape and drop angle of the handle. If it is made of canvas micarta that is left rough or beadblasted and if its shape has a significant swelling at the front (quasi-guard for thrusting & hard poking), at the center (filling the hollow of the palm to spread out contact pressure between hand and handle), and at the back (for anchoring the knife if used for chopping or other vigorous swinging cuts), so much the better.

Two things that would make the handle even better IMHO would be:
1) Deepening the finger index groove to help prevent the hand sliding forward onto the blade if/when the handle is greasy. This is definitely just a personal preference on my part, one of those subjective "in the eye of the beholder" items.
2) Not curving the upward line of the scales back from the front of the finger index groove. This curve makes the design shown flow beautifully in a visual sense from the blade edge back into the handle. However, I would bring the scales straight up from the point where they begin at the bottom of the current curve. Especially if coupled with a forward-flare on the scales, that would give my thumb as wide a platform as possible to push against when bracing the blade for forceful push cuts like pointing stakes, cutting big fat tinder curls for firestarting, etc.

I don't generally care for filework for two reasons:

1. It is made of nooks & crannies that can (eventually will) collect bits of plant gunk, food particles, pine pitch, what-have-you. This makes it tougher to clean the knife after use than if the filework was not there.

2. When filework is done on the spine of a blade, it represents breaks along the outer skin of the blade. A high degree of the resistance to flexing of a closed surface is based on the dimension of the outer surface and its resistance to stretching. That's why we can use tubular frames on cars or use torsion-box benchtops in a shop and still have rigidity without going to solid-stock frame members. Anything that interrupts the planar continuity of a surface skin only makes that skin weaker.

IMHO any filework on a knife (for thumb ramp or blade spine traction) should always be radiused at the bottom to avoid concentrating stress vectors (stress risers) at inside corners. Such concentration of vectors leads to easier cracking and breaking of the steel at those corners. The round curvature of radiused filing/milling redirects the stress vectors around the curve and the vectors can't so easily concentrate enough force into a small enough space to tear or break the metal matrix.

Such radiused traction grooves are especially effective if handle scales are brought up to the same height as the tang or thumb-ramp and the grooves are milled into both the steel and scale material in one continuous cut.

Thanks for the bandwidth, -- Greg --
 
that looks similar to the Ontairo RTAK. Buy one for $80.00 and play with it so as not to screw up your first prototype.
 
The more I look at that knife, the more it reminds me of this knife which I designed...built by Jack Crain-
EDITED
I too originally wanted a groved thumb ramp, he advised me against it on the grounds that it would weaken the blade. As he put it, the blade would be "1000 times stronger without them".
This knife has a 6" blade and is 11 1/2" overall. 3/16" thick. One of a kind.
 
I decided to not get the filework for the listed reasons. Mainly nooks and cranies for sap, rust and grit to rest in.

What I'm worried about is something like grit/sand getting in the nooks then coming off in the kydex sheath.

I have a feeling this would muck up the finish on draws and re-sheaths.

And that really turns me off:o
 
Thanks for all your opinions guys!

I appreciate it. How about for a finish? I was thinking about flat ground with a satin finish.

What would you put on her?

Here's her stats so far:

Handle: Bead Blasted black Micarta (Turns Gray)
Blade: D2 (RH 60-61)
Grind: Flat?
Finish: Satin?
Sheath: Kydex/Nylon


Can't wait to hold her!:D:cool:
 
Sounds good to me. I don't know if you can see it in my picture, but the Crain I designed is both satin finished and bead blasted. From the ricasso to the tip of the blade is satin, from the ricasso back to the pommel is bead blasted. It's really cool, the dual tone, not something you see often. The handle is black linen Micarta and it did not turn grey. Of course it was finished to 600 grit, then bead blasted. A rougher finish may yield different results.
 
Hey Nic,
I'm up early. It's the weekend and I have a 2 year old. But it's East Coast time here. Not as early for me as it is for you.
 
Nice clean design!! Looks really good.

One question: why D2? I wouldn't use D2 on a 7.5" bladed knife unless it was for light duty. Any chopping/hard use and I would go with A2 or something.
 
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