Filing Primary Bevels

The_KaramVit

The_KaramVit

Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
494
Hi!

I've been trying to read up and gain knowledge on how to start making knives. I want to start slow and use files first to make knives before investing in a grinder. I know it is possible but i have not yet decided on exactly how i will do it. I came across this video on youtube that speaks of filing the bevel at a very big angle first to get it started then, once the mid point of the thickness is reached, slowly making the angle more acute until the bevel reaches full height.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iNDRwwBQQ

I think this will work but wanted to hear from other knifemakers in here that have used files to grind their primary bevels. Is there anything i'm missing?
 
It works, it works well. But it's slow, and it takes time to get used to. I use one still. You can do some nice grinds with it. The tip and plunge line can be hard. With patience, it works
 
It will do fine, I made my first 3 knives with one just like that. Aaron has some great videos and while your on you tube check out Nick Wheelers hand sanding 101 video will make a huge difference in finishing.
Good luck!
 
Friend request approved and appreciated! I do all bevels with files. I find it very therapeutic. That is exactly how I do it as well. Scribe the edge lines, and the first cut is made to the edge lines at about a 45 degree angle. Once that cut is established along the length, then lower the angle by about half, and cut the previously created shoulder off and get that facet nice and flat, all the way to the edge lines. Then repeat until the top grind line is where you want it. At the spine or past for a Full Flat Grind. Past the spine for tapering.

I do NOT use a file jig. I see no reason to use one whatsoever. We don't need precision when filing bevels, for crying out loud. We are trying to hog off steel as fast as we can. Why a jig I will never know. The only "jig" I see that comes in handy is a plunge line jig, called a "file guide". Usually has a carbide face to it for nice crisp clean even plunge lines.

Use the coarsest file you can find for the bulk work. The Pferd Chip Breaker from Amazon is the king in this realm.
 
viral and justin, thank you, thank you for the reassurance! I will be checking out Wheeler's videos. Many have recommended them :D
 
samuraistuart said:
Friend request approved and appreciated! I do all bevels with files. I find it very therapeutic. That is exactly how I do it as well. Scribe the edge lines, and the first cut is made to the edge lines at about a 45 degree angle. Once that cut is established along the length, then lower the angle by about half, and cut the previously created shoulder off and get that facet nice and flat, all the way to the edge lines. Then repeat until the top grind line is where you want it. At the spine or past for a Full Flat Grind. Past the spine for tapering.

I do NOT use a file jig. I see no reason to use one whatsoever. We don't need precision when filing bevels, for crying out loud. We are trying to hog off steel as fast as we can. Why a jig I will never know. The only "jig" I see that comes in handy is a plunge line jig, called a "file guide". Usually has a carbide face to it for nice crisp clean even plunge lines.

Use the coarsest file you can find for the bulk work. The Pferd Chip Breaker from Amazon is the king in this realm.
Click to expand...

Samurai, thanks for accepting! I added you to keep eyes on your knives for sale. Your orange/black 52100 from yesterday really caught my eye so i want to keep seeing your awesome work. was that one beveled with a file too??? That's some great work!

Thank you for the extra info on tapering. I was really wondering how to get that done. Regarding 'why' using a filing jig, shouldn't i try to get both sides filed at the same angle? I see a filing jig helping me with that, especially starting out with my first few. I can probably start the process without the jig to get a lot of work done fast then start using the jig when the grind is half height. I will watch out for the plunge lines (many have warned me that they are tricky).

Just ordered a Pferd CB from amazon :D

Thank you for all your help!
 
No, you don't need a file guide to keep the same angle on both sides. Let's say your not tapering at all. (realizing that isn't too common). The first cut at around 45 degrees. The second cut half of that. The third half of that. Once you reach close to the spine, you have a reference marker (the spine) for both sides. If your full flat grind is just kissing the spine on both sides, and reaches the edge scribe lines on both sides....it is even.

Often new knife makers are concerned about the actual angle that is created by the bevel cut. It doesn't matter what angle that is. It is dictated by the geometry of the knife. How thick the steel is vs how tall the grind is tells you the angle. And it is usually around the 2 or 3 degree mark for most knives. But there is absolutely no need to concern oneself about the angle created by the bevel. That angle of concern is dealt with when the steel thickness is chosen for the knife in question.

It certainly is a bit more of a challenge when you do tapering. Ideally, when sighting down the spine with your eye, you want the tapers to be even on both sides, right? If the tapers are even on both sides, then the angle on both sides is exactly the same. I'm not really trying to discourage the use of file guides, but I really don't see the point. If I thought they were worth the time and effort to build I would say go for it. But I honestly don't believe them to be necessary at all. A file guide...yes. But a filing jig....I'll let you make your own mind! Again...not trying to dissuade you!

Thanks for the compliment on the 52100 knife! I LOVE that knife too. My own hunting knife is exactly the same, only solid orange G10 and O7 tool steel. Whoever gets that knife, and the W2/walnut that is identical (for sale as well on page 4 now I think), is getting a great knife. And I hate tooting my own horn.

Yes, sir. All my knives, even 8" chefs knives, are done with files (no jigs!). Just freehand filing. Pferd 14" Chip Breaker. Simonds 14" Multi cut. Simonds 10" Multi cut.

Don't hesitate to PM me or whatever with any questions. ALWAYS willing to help and talk knife talk!!!
 
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samuraistuart said:
No, you don't need a file guide to keep the same angle on both sides. Let's say your not tapering at all. (realizing that isn't too common). The first cut at around 45 degrees. The second cut half of that. The third half of that. Once you reach close to the spine, you have a reference marker (the spine) for both sides. If your full flat grind is just kissing the spine on both sides, and reaches the edge scribe lines on both sides....it is even.

Often new knife makers are concerned about the actual angle that is created by the bevel cut. It doesn't matter what angle that is. It is dictated by the geometry of the knife. How thick the steel is vs how tall the grind is tells you the angle. And it is usually around the 2 or 3 degree mark for most knives. But there is absolutely no need to concern oneself about the angle created by the bevel. That angle of concern is dealt with when the steel thickness is chosen for the knife in question.

It certainly is a bit more of a challenge when you do tapering. Ideally, when sighting down the spine with your eye, you want the tapers to be even on both sides, right? If the tapers are even on both sides, then the angle on both sides is exactly the same. I'm not really trying to discourage the use of file guides, but I really don't see the point. If I thought they were worth the time and effort to build I would say go for it. But I honestly don't believe them to be necessary at all. A file guide...yes. But a filing jig....I'll let you make your own mind! Again...not trying to dissuade you!

Thanks for the compliment on the 52100 knife! I LOVE that knife too. My own hunting knife is exactly the same, only solid orange G10 and O7 tool steel. Whoever gets that knife, and the W2/walnut that is identical (for sale as well on page 4 now I think), is getting a great knife. And I hate tooting my own horn.

Yes, sir. All my knives, even 8" chefs knives, are done with files (no jigs!). Just freehand filing. Pferd 14" Chip Breaker. Simonds 14" Multi cut. Simonds 10" Multi cut.

Don't hesitate to PM me or whatever with any questions. ALWAYS willing to help and talk knife talk!!!
Click to expand...

More of this makes sense now. I don't have to worry about the angle as long as i don't overshoot the edge scribe line doing the 45 degree cut. Thanks for going easy on me and being patient with these questions.

I'm a bit surprised that the two mentioned knives are still available, actually. They look deserving to have had an owner already even before the price drop! I wish i had a need for a knife that size but my needs are currently covered by a Benchmade 162, my only production fixed blade. I hope they sell soon!

I'll definitely take you up on your PM offer. Talk to you soon!
 
Thanks for the kind words!

And I DO MEAN IT!!! PM me. Text me. Email me. CALL ME!!!! Or come swing by! I love talking this stuff.....ESPECIALLY when it helps out others in making their knives!!!!

512-618-3285. I do screen all unknown calls. Leave a voicemail and I WILL MOST CERTAINLY CALL YOU BACK!!!

God bless you all!
 
samuraistuart said:
Thanks for the kind words!

And I DO MEAN IT!!! PM me. Text me. Email me. CALL ME!!!! Or come swing by! I love talking this stuff.....ESPECIALLY when it helps out others in making their knives!!!!

512-618-3285. I do screen all unknown calls. Leave a voicemail and I WILL MOST CERTAINLY CALL YOU BACK!!!

God bless you all!
Click to expand...

Hey boss, where do you get your simonds files? The ones I have are junk and I need an upgrade. Also the chip breaker, did you just get it from Amazon?
 
Yes, sir, all of my files I order from Amazon. I used to use Grainger, there is an outlet not far from where I live, but the prices were too high compared to Amazon. Let's see if I can provide some links to the files I use....

Pferd 14" Chip Breaker (don't use chipbreaker in the amazon search. split the word up) http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ZELWAS/ref=biss_dp_t_asn
Pferd 12" coarse double cut http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VD4UI4/ref=biss_dp_t_asn
Simonds 14" Multi Cut (amazon is calling it a chip breaker) http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002FU918/ref=biss_dp_t_asn
Simonds 10" Multi Cut http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0050ECKZE/ref=biss_dp_t_asn
Simonds 12" single cut fine http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00018AFYM/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

Of course you don't need all of these. The most versatile file by far is the Simonds Multi Cut. And the fastest in material removal by far is the Pferd Chip Breaker.

If anyone has experience using the Corinox file on steel removal I would LOVE to hear how it worked!
 
I've been using some old welled files but I've about burnt one out. I have 3 14 inch course files but they have a bow in them, I don't know what they would be for or if I could cut a hollow ground in with one?
 
Would you recommend me getting the pferd 14 chip breaker and the simonds 14 multicut for my first nice files?
 
viral said:
Would you recommend me getting the pferd 14 chip breaker and the simonds 14 multicut for my first nice files?
Click to expand...

Seems like Stuart really put emphasis on the pferd chipbreaker 14" as the one that will do the most hard work in removing a lot of material. This is what i will start with, per his recommendation. Also added a Simonds 14" multicut and 10" multicut. Probably will get the fine one too.
 
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