Final edge grits based on knife use

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Grayzer86

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Jan 15, 2012
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Well it’s me again with what is likey an unanswerable question. One thing I am curious about is what grits you like to use on specific knives like hunters, skinners and fillets. While I like to take my kitchen knives as fine as possible, which right now would be 6000, that edge doesn’t really work well for general hunters and such I find. What I have been doing is taking these types of knives to 400 or 600 only because I find that a bit of tooth seems to cut better and longer in things like meat and animal hide. I also find that for a fillet, an edge that is too finely polished doesn’t bite and cut through scales well. That leaves me with my first question about what you fine folks prefer.

My second question is about how this is dictated by steel type. I know AEB-L for example can take an insanely finely polished and thin edge which is great for some things, while something like S30v doesn’t seem to benefit as much from super crazy high grits. What this leaves me wondering about is my choice of AEB-L in hunters. I have had no complaints from anyone who has used them, but it makes me wonder about using a steel that is designed for super fine edges in a purpose where many prefer a less polished edge. I may be over thinking this, but it had me wondering just how good of a choice it really is for hunters, skinners, and fillet blades.
 
I take my hunting/skinning/camping/etc knives to 400 grit. This type edge cutts meat, rope, sticks, etc better than a high polished edge and holds longer I think. Not great for tomatoes though which I go to 1000 and buff on my kitchen knives. As far as Aebl I have make a butchering knife out of it and leave the edge at 400 and then buff. I have a guy that’s gotten 5 so far and works up wild game with it and he raves about how well they cut along with how long they hold an edge.
 
I agree with Matt. Rougher use blades do better with 220-400 grit edges.Finer cutters 800-1000 grit. super precise cutters ( sashimi blades, scalpels, etc.) 2000-10,000 grit.

This is not to be confused with the blade surface finish, which can range from 400 grit to mirror polished. The edge is a different surface and is addressed after the bevels are finished.
 
400 grit for most and 1200 for push cutting knives. But that's not exactly true since both get a fair bit of stropping with 1500 grit compound.
 
I take it to 400 grit then move to a flexstone 600g for polished finish
 
I don't think that grit would act like a die, sculpting a micro serrated edge...a blunt edge is the result of impacting huge grit chunks imho. If you want to actually have an apex you should hone that very edge. Carbides will give you the effective "bite" at the expense of keenness.
But i am talking at micro level, not questioning the need for a continuos edge apex.
If needed, actual serrations would serve us better.
 
Stezan,
I have looked at these edges under great magnification, and talked with people like Roman Landes about this and my take is that at lower grits it does change the cutting to a micro-serration. Above 220, the effect drops rapidly and at 400 the effect is pretty much gone. As you say, the carbide size is the biggest determiner of how acute an edge can get and still have a smooth apex. Even if formed at 220 grit, stropping/honing will give the serrations very sharp tips.

If you folks want an eye opener, take a freshly sharpened blade that you consider screaming sharp and examine it with a good 20X loupe. The edge will not look like as smooth as you would think in most cases. Look at 100X under a good opaque object scope and you will think you never sanded the edge at all. It will look like a topographical map of the Rockies. Under an electron microscope it looks like a planetscape from a science fiction movie.
 
Not so sure about the filet knives as generally, I would make two push cuts and two long cuts in the skin. Not all that abrasive. I don't know what kind of fish you are skinning. Maybe a sturgeon might giver you some trouble, but those aren't really scales. ;)
 
You want a toothy edge?

Phill Hartsfield would take his grind to zero with 50 grit belt then polish the edge on a buffer.

If you were not careful those teeth would get you.
 
AVigil said:
You want a toothy edge?

Phill Hartsfield would take his grind to zero with 50 grit belt then polish the edge on a buffer.

If you were not careful those teeth would get you.
Click to expand...

Yeah, those kind of edges are scary meat cutters. Like some machining chips. You can push on it, grab it, never puncture the skin, but the moment it slides across it's "Oh that's what my thumb bone looks like."
 
This is all kind of news to me. I have always taken my edges on all knives up to 400 and then strop. I feel like a "toothy" edge just creates drag in the cut and the "teeth" will get dull faster, while not cutting as well as a fine polished edge while it gets there. A high grit polished edge will have less drag in the cut therefore staying sharp longer. I'm not basing this on anything but what is my logic and experience. Though I haven't explored toothy edges except for before I was a knife maker and couldn't sharpen that well regardless.
 
Kevin, it is a combination of the two.
The teeth make many microscopic points, The stropping/buffing makes each of those a sharp tooth. The teeth will slice through things like meat that have fibers very efficiently. It is sort of like thousands of tiny knives cutting one after the other.
It won't be good for woodcarving, and it will tear up soft and non-fibrous tissue like fish.

As said, you can grab it with your hand with reasonable safety, but if it moves sideways, it will slice the bone. The cut from a soup can lid is very similar. It doesn't feel tahty sharp until you accidentally run your finger along the edge.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Kevin, it is a combination of the two.
The teeth make many microscopic points, The stropping/buffing makes each of those a sharp tooth. The teeth will slice through things like meat that have fibers very efficiently. It is sort of like thousands of tiny knives cutting one after the other.
It won't be good for woodcarving, and it will tear up soft and non-fibrous tissue like fish.

As said, you can grab it with your hand with reasonable safety, but if it moves sideways, it will slice the bone. The cut from a soup can lid is very similar. It doesn't feel tahty sharp until you accidentally run your finger along the edge.
Click to expand...
So that said, is there any disadvantage to a finer grit edge on a field knife? Perhaps a need to sharpen more often?
 
jdm61 said:
Not so sure about the filet knives as generally, I would make two push cuts and two long cuts in the skin. Not all that abrasive. I don't know what kind of fish you are skinning. Maybe a sturgeon might giver you some trouble, but those aren't really scales. ;)
Click to expand...

Mostly I’m just cleaning freshwater fish like Pike, walleye, perch, and the odd smallmouth bass. The way I do them we cut straight down behind the gill until I reach the spine and midpoint in the belly. I then turn the knife 90 degrees and following the spine, slab the whole side off the fish. It’s not so much that the scales are abrasive, just that the first cut essentially saws through the skin on the side of the fish. I find a bit courser edge cuts through the scales making this cut much easier.

Thanks everyone for your info and opinions. It sounds like most of you agree with what I have found from my own testing. It wasn’t an issue where I was having problems or anything, I just like to see if my own results and theories match those of makers more advanced than myself.
 
I used to work my way through the grits and would try to go to the finest edge possible. After I started carying some nicer folders I often found that my results with finer stones to be kinda mixed. Sometimes it felt like the edge would come and go or lots if wire edges. I read Ankersons thing and the toothy edge holding up better. I'm not sure if it does or does not but without a guided hone and perfect technique I can't say that it's any worse. I use a 400-600 grit belt to sharpen if I'm home or DMT bench stones if I'm in front of the TV and then a very light touch up on a dark spyderco bench stone to knock off any rough bits and then a strop. I have a leather one loaded with .5 micron diamonds but don't really like it. Honestly I like a paint stir stick best and you can throw it away if it gets messed up. I was using diamonds for M4 and S110v and some of the others and green chrome on carbon steel. I don't know if there is a big difference but they both work better than a clean strop. What I do know is that my edges are as sharp as they have ever been and they very durable and they take about 2 minutes. I really haven't found anyone who felt that is was lacking. The edges easily shave hair and feel very aggressive though I can notice a difference in steels and how close and effortlessly they shave. My AEB-L knife felt on par with my 01 straight razor but I might not be maintaining the razor as well as possible though I doubt it . I can see where some very specialized task could benefit from the high polish edge but I feel like those task also have blades and geometry built from the ground up for those task.
 
So I have found this discussion very interesting. I have always free hand sharpened an just went for superfine edges. As such I have not really tested rougher edges. So with say a 400grit and alittke stropping what should a body expect for in testing the edge? Hair popping, cut paper smoothly? What would be the test at 400 to say ok that's it. Gonna have to go finer to do anymore. Hope this is not highjacking a thread. If it is I will start another.
Thanks

Mike
 
My field & German/American chef knives get taken to 600 grit & Japanese or my own knives get up to a 30 micron SC 3M belt and then buffed with Green Chrome!
 
Mike22 said:
So I have found this discussion very interesting. I have always free hand sharpened an just went for superfine edges. As such I have not really tested rougher edges. So with say a 400grit and alittke stropping what should a body expect for in testing the edge? Hair popping, cut paper smoothly? What would be the test at 400 to say ok that's it. Gonna have to go finer to do anymore. Hope this is not highjacking a thread. If it is I will start another.
Thanks

Mike
Click to expand...
It's will at min cut arm hair and pushcut newsprint. Shaving facial hair /stubble cutting paper towels are hard to get with high wearing steels like s110v (for me that is). 1084 and AEB-L do it . Push cuting TP isn't something I have done though I can draw cut.
 
Properly sharpening/honing is not as straightforward as many think, and the more you polish the edge, the more you run the risk of raising a filmsy foil burr. With lower grit this issue is not as heavy, since the foil burr gets abraded as it forms. That's why many are happy with a rough edge and say that a smooth edge won't work as well....foil edges won't last that long, but it's just a sharpening technique issue!
I am not a big fan of hunky unrefined edges which wedge in and tear materials, but understand that those might have their place in some specific application...the more, if lazyness factors in, imho.
For those who are interested in looking up close some edges, have a look here: https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/
Look at the magnification used, and the grit involved...now imagine a 50 grit's edge in comparison...for a high dollar custom knife!!
I don't think they hone on 50-120 grit for cutting competitions, but i am sure that finshing one's knives at 50 grit would boost productivity and profits if people favors the myth of the toothy edge to such an extent :)
My bottom line is i don't want exacerbate macroscopically the inavoidable roughness of the edges, finishing them with lower grits. Carbides are orders of magnitude smaller than the low grit's scratches, but give plenty of "grip" if needed, just selecting the right steel type, when the application demands for some extra bite.
It is like the "Moran's edge", a convexed edge has its place, but when i see hunting knives with a log splitter's edge profile i start thinking the concept had been stretched a bit too far.
 
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