Finally built a new heat treat oven

Drew Riley

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
4,236
One of the first things I did when I decided I wanted to start making knives, was to build a NWGS and a heat treating oven. It wasn't anything fancy... more/less just a chamber made from K23 bricks that I mortared together into the rough shape of a kiln, with a 3000W Kanthal element running along the sides. At the time, I didn't have much capability to easily fabricate a shell for the bricks to live in, and instead of a door, I just mortared some firebricks together that I would manually push in front of the opening with a piece of ceramic fiber blanket as a gasket to help seal things up. It did everything I asked of it for 12 years or so, but the bricks finally collapsed in on themselves, and I didn't want to waste my time or money repeating a "lack luster" design.
I've kept my eyes open for other options over the years, and I don't think I've liked very many designs nearly as much as the oven Jarod Todd (JTKnives) built a few years ago, so I drew inspiration heavily from his build.

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Bricks were SLIGHTLY easier to come by these days, than they were with my first oven build. I found a supplier/manufacturer about 25 miles away from me in South Holland, IL. The plan was to find somewhere close enough that I could pick them up and save about $100 to $150 in freight charges (and possible broken bricks), but UPS ground rate to my house was only $30, so I took my chances, thinking I'd just swap any broken bricks in person, if needed. Well, to my surprise, they packed things much better than I could have anticipated, with each individual brick in its own box:
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Here's how I set up to notch the bricks for assembly:
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My table saw took care of the cross cut easily enough.

The main chamber is 6 rows stacked like so:
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I decided to do top mounted elements on fused quartz rods, so I set up an angle iron fence and stop on my mill, and just used a 1/4" end mill to notch the bricks accordingly. I didn't take any pictures of that process, but here's the element after stretching it to length and spacing the coils:
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I didn't take too many more pictures of the build process, but basically I just lined my steel box with a 1" layer of ceramic fiber blanket on all sides, stacked in my bricks, laid in my element, and voila:
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I'm using the same controller box I built for my first oven (for now), though I do plan on upgrading to a touch screen/programmable PID controller in the future.

Some specs:
6x6x24.5" inside chamber (minus 3/4" or so at the top for the element, of course)
The element is a ~4000W kanthal element, running on 220VAC. It easily hits 1000F in 5 minutes or less, and 1575F in around 20 to 25 minutes
I ran it for 2 hours at 1575, and the outside shell had only reached about 130F.
After turning it off, I checked the shell a couple hours later, and it was about 200F.
Keeping in mind that the bricks are just press fit together, I'd say that's not too bad. I do plan on coating the inside with some ITC-100 to see if I can increase the efficiency just a bit, but as it sits now, it's quite usable.
 
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I like that design. How long does it take to get to 1975F? Have you tried that yet? A project I've got in mind is building something similar, except smaller so it will heatup fast. Good job
 
I haven't tried any higher than 1575 yet. I know the fused quartz rods have a max operating temp of about 2000F, so I'm a little bit hesitant to push it that hard just yet. I'd probably want to change the support rods out for mullite/alumina ceramic if I plan on pushing it that high very often, but I don't see why it shouldn't make it as fast (or likely faster) that your typical commercially available benchtop kiln. The Itc 100 should help too.
 
I haven't tried any higher than 1575 yet. I know the fused quartz rods have a max operating temp of about 2000F, so I'm a little bit hesitant to push it that hard just yet. I'd probably want to change the support rods out for mullite/alumina ceramic if I plan on pushing it that high very often, but I don't see why it shouldn't make it as fast (or likely faster) that your typical commercially available benchtop kiln. The Itc 100 should help too.

Really curious for the before and after on the ITC 100. I used that on my propane forge interior after I couldn’t get to welding temp. I had used some ceramic firing cones to gauge the temp before and after (didn’t have a pid, thermocouple, etc at the time) and the ITC 100 definitely made an improvement. Curious if your times will come down on getting to temp after you put it on.

Jeremy
 
So, I applied the ITC-100. I took all the bricks back out, brushed it on the interior face of each brick, then re-assembled, and set the oven to 500F for about 4 or 5 hours. I then ramped right up to 1575, which I've chosen as somewhat of a test point, because it's the highest temperature I reach on average for the specific steels I'm heat treating.
I wouldn't say the oven reached temperature any faster, or if it did, it wasn't much, but I immediately noticed a more stabilized temperature. I'm now easily holding within a degree of set point or better, vs a 10 or 12 degree fluctuation (+/- 5 or 6 degrees) prior to the ITC.
Hard to say if it did much of anything for the outer shell temps or not. After running at 500F for 5 hours, then 1575 for about 90 minutes, the shell temp was right around 200F. I checked it an hour later after turning it off, and it was up to around 220. It's hot, to be sure, but not terribly so. Worst case, I could always set up a small fan to help regulate the outer temps just a little more.
I may also think about adding an additional "insulating" door handle to open and close the door with, though even with a 200F shell temp, the door is still cool enough to latch and unlatch without gloves. I also noticed that it's holding inside temps just a little bit longer as well, with the oven off.

BTW, I ended up not coating the inside of the door, or any of the other ceramic fiber insulation, as they recommend against direct application to ceramic fiber, or at least not without of a base coat of rigidizer, if I recall. I want to keep the flexibility of the insulation for a better seal, so I left it alone.

At any rate, the stuff does make a considerable difference, and while I think certainly on the pricey side, I'm glad to bought it.
 
Wow it looks like I’m looking at my oven.
Tell me that is not the slickest way to build an oven. Element swap is a breeze which will be rare if ever in your case if you used the same size element wire I did. Great job on the build. I’m actually building a second one as we have to much for for just one oven now.
 
Wow it looks like I’m looking at my oven.
Tell me that is not the slickest way to build an oven. Element swap is a breeze which will be rare if ever in your case if you used the same size element wire I did. Great job on the build. I’m actually building a second one as we have to much for for just one oven now.

I did have to remove and re-install the element for coating with ITC-100, and I have to say it was very quick and easy, especially after it "settled" from firing the first time. I did debate getting a spare stretched and ready for a quick swap out, but my first oven's (lighter gauge) element lasted for well over a decade, so I'm probably not going to worry about it. TCs and SSRs might be worth having a spare or two of, however.
 
I might do another DIY on the new oven build. I enjoyed doing the last one and I hope it helped other guys out.
 
I might do another DIY on the new oven build. I enjoyed doing the last one and I hope it helped other guys out.
It helped me out, for sure. I'm probably not building a second anytime soon, but I'd still love to see a WIP thread on yours.
 
I might do another DIY on the new oven build. I enjoyed doing the last one and I hope it helped other guys out.

I agree-always love seeing builds that others put together. I’m planning on doing an oven build before too long and am thinking hard on whether or not to try the elements in the ceiling, as well. Seems pretty handy and I like the idea of not worrying about them coming out of the grooves in the walls.

Jeremy
 
I agree-always love seeing builds that others put together. I’m planning on doing an oven build before too long and am thinking hard on whether or not to try the elements in the ceiling, as well. Seems pretty handy and I like the idea of not worrying about them coming out of the grooves in the walls.

Jeremy
Think hard again......................
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Think hard again......................
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I think those diagrams are a bit over simplified. I'd like to see some actual temps of the theoretical second oven. Once the bricks have all come up to temp and the oven has equalized, I don't see there being that dramatic of a difference in a small chamber like you'd see in a bench top kiln. For that matter, how much hotter are the elements once the oven is equalized? They're only coming on briefly every other second or so to maintain temp. I mean, I've never made it a habit of putting blades within an inch or two of them anyway, but the point is, that a heated "side element" IFB (INSULATING fire brick) kiln is going to have radiant heat coming from the brick as well as the elements.
Yes, temp drops when the door is open, but it also recovers relatively quickly. I imagine that any temperature drop you'd see in a blade tang that was left in the oven, would recover just about as quickly once the door was closed.

I'm not saying that the diagrams are necessarily wrong, I'd just really like to see some hard numbers, or thermal graphic images, or maybe just hear some other opinions.
 
I'm not saying that the diagrams are necessarily wrong, I'd just really like to see some hard numbers, or thermal graphic images, or maybe just hear some other opinions
I was going to say the same thing you did (but decided not to). once up to temperature, the entire inner wall is hot and radiating (the radiation just bounces around the chamber, being absorbed and then re-radiated, until the inner surface is pretty much uniform temp). There might be some higher radiation from the elements, but like you said, the difference should be much, much, smaller than what is implied in the diagram....
 
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