Financially Stable

R

Robert Ptacel

Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
314
If what I asking is inappropriate I apologize but what in your estimation is the most financially stable knife company in the U.S. I guess I ask because it is always in the forefront of my mind after being laid off from a company that had been in business for 109 years suddenly closed. Also seeing such cutlery icons as Schrade and Camillus close in recent years is sad to see.
 
Most (all?) of the American knife companies are privately owned. That means that financial information is very hard to get - the companies have every reason to keep it private, and usually do.

Buck, Spyderco, Benchmade, Case? They each sell a lot of knives and are highly regarded by knife buyers. That doesn't necessarily equate to high profits or financial stability.
 
Another thing to look at is a company like Kershaw that is pretty well diversified between kitchen knives and folders.
 
Following is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth:

To answer you question, I'd say Buck.

I left the most stable job I'd ever had two years ago to be a stay-at-home dad. My employer (we sold high-end European hardware) had not had lay-offs for decades. They just laid off my entire sales crew at the end of April; no one saw that coming.

My dad & I had a conversation a few weeks ago, along these same lines. He was a graphic artist for years, and we talked about how a company will look stable, introducing new & trendy & innovative products, then lock the employees out one day and go bankrupt.

So your question is a tough one to answer. In both Schrade's and Camillus' situation, I don't think either of them needed to close. I've got the 2004 Sporting Knives book, and it covered Schrade's 100th anniversary. They seemed to be doing VERY well at the time. They were making some pretty standard product lines when they closed, but the quality was still there, from what I can tell. Why close? Who knows? Camillus management is the reason for Camillus closing, plain and simple. The facility needed capital improvements, (ie: apparently they didn't even have a loading dock) among other issues; things that, in my opinion, could have been solved if the right people had been in management. I wasn't there, but from what I've heard, Camillus' owners (and some management) "took the money and ran", leaving the employees & everyone else hanging.

So, in a nutshell, for a privately owned company, you never know what might happen from one year to the next. I don't think Case, Buck, Busse, Spyderco, R.A.T., etc. are going anywhere anytime soon, but who's to say what will happen six months from now.

Case, to me, seems to be a almost "desperate" (right word?) these days - it seems that they're introducing dozens of new patterns every year, but I pull my hair out sometimes just trying to get a good user with CV blades. It seems EVERYTHING they make is for collectors. (Again, that's just my opinion. I love Case knives and buy several a year, to give as gifts & support them.) Buck has a rather large presence here in the forums, and great products as well. Seeing some of their folks post here occasionally really makes me feel good about where they're at. I buy several Bucks a year as well, usually from their American made lines. Busse? Jerry's a true, honest gentleman, and he posts here as well. With Busse, I don't think they'll hide anything. Spyderco is brilliant - Sal is very attentive to what forum folk have to say about their products. R.A.T. has a large following here too . . . the list could go on & on.

However, as much as we love our "favorites", the reality is that great product lines, slick advertising campaigns, clever slogans . . . however a company presents itself, none of that adds up to stability or profitability or longevity; what we see is the best face they want us to see.

Sorry if I sound 'preachy'; I've had this same kind of conversation a lot recently with friends here who are shocked to find out that their favorite knife mfr. is gone.

thx - cpr
 
Spyderco is popular with knife enthusiasts but I reckon companies that sell a lot of cheap knives, like Gerber and CRKT make more sales. They are what the masses buy and one reason why companies like Spyderco, SOG and Benchmade have created a budget line
 
Spyderco is popular with knife enthusiasts but I reckon companies that sell a lot of cheap knives, like Gerber and CRKT make more sales. They are what the masses buy and one reason why companies like Spyderco, SOG and Benchmade have created a budget line
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I agree. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Taylor Brands or Bud K were more profitable than Spyderco, Buck, or any quality brand.

Still, since these are not public companies, all we can do is guess.
 
Camillus closed because it was looted by family members who had no care about the company or employees or business partners.

Not all failures are because of economics.
 
Reality is that the most successful are targets for purchase. Then their fate may rest with corporations that look at next quarter projections, rather than heritage, and trade on reputations that may no longer be associated with the products. The end result is not determined by success or failure of the former enterprise, only by the method of attaining a return on the investment. Are Schrades still Schrades? What's in a name? It's a matter of opinion. :) Regards, ss.
 
What I heard about Schrade is that it put all its eggs in the Walmart basket and was at their mercy which they have none. All this globalization has made many companies to develop their niche markets. Case for one has found it in the collector's market. Schrade unfortunately never found theirs.
 
I'm going to guess Spyderco because they were founded in and have apparently had tremendous growth in market share and popularity during a period that most other domestic cutlery companies were in decline and in fact most domestic manufacturing companies in general were in decline. That tells me that they have the right stuff for the current ecomonic reality. When I asked my local knife dealer what his best selling knife was, he said Endura. And he has everything for sale there. Spyderco has a model for sale through Walmart. I doubt they are making profit on that contract, maybe even taking a loss, but that is getting them a lot of exposure through volume and potentially leading to more sales of their other models. I like the fact that they are apparently not relying on Walmart for access to their market, but simply using them for promotion. Smart. Spydercos are featured in popular culture such as making appearances in movies (as are several other brands, of course). They obviously have a strong following among knife enthusiasts based on this forum. I think all the signs are there for prosperity.

I would also guess Benchmade as my second choice for many similar reasons.

But as stated, you never know what is going on inside the company or what the future will bring. A recession seems to be looming and the dollar is weakening. There may be tougher times ahead for these companies. Plus, all it would take is a law like the ones passed in Germany and the UK to rock the industry here. Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
 
What I heard about Schrade is that it put all its eggs in the Walmart basket and was at their mercy which they have none.
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Schrade was also up to their eyeballs in debt and had no cash reserves or liquid assets. They filed for bankruptcy when the banks called the loans.

Impossible to say how many or which other companies are in the same boat today.
 
Master Cutlery, Frost Cutlery, etc all probably sale more knives in one day than any of the top 5 do in a year because they just import thier stuff and it's a lower overhead cause all you need is a shipping and recieveing setup and they buy thier knives by the ton. Spyderco, Buck, Benchmade, RAT, Case, Ka-Bar and Kershaw actually have factorys in the US and Japan where they have to pay workers a decent wage cause you dont want workers that make minimum wage or your QC will go to hell, they have to follow OSHAs oftentimes retarded safety rules as well as EPA, IRS and who knows how many other gov orgs rules and regs, you've got to keep the lights going and the water flowing and a roof over the workers head and then you have to hope that the product that you spent all the money tooling up for does well enough in sales to make a profit on. Also what happens if like the Spyderfly customs says you cant bring it in the country even when clones are coming in by the thousands or what if your new AO gets classified as a switchblade then your possible sales market shrinks by almost 99%. The deck is stacked against american manufactures so bad it's almost like the gov wants them to fail.
 
Cyblade said:
The deck is stacked against american manufactures so bad it's almost like the gov wants them to fail.
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Kinda reminds me of when Buck left SoCal and went to Idaho. SoCal made it pretty expensive to do business, Idaho made it more beneficial for Buck to move there. Local government in SoCal finally got the message, too late; lost a great business member of the community and what I would assume was a sizable chunk of tax revenue when Buck went North.

thx - cpr
 
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