finished with birch

G

grumpy_grinder

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[/URL][/IMG]Birch has a lot more "oh la la" then i thought. Came out as a nice golden color. sanded to 1500 and 2 coats of tung oil. Will be waxing tomorrow.
 
birch is beautiful, takes a really mellow patina after a while. they use it for school furniture,so you know it's tough. tell more about the knife if you are so inclined-it looks gorgeous.
 
Thanks , my first knife , made out of an old Nicholson file. 3.5" blade. All hand made , hand cut , hand filed and sanded. The birch I purchased at timber mart. 10$ for 7 feet. This blade
Cost me 25$ for sand paper and tung oil. Which I have plenty left for my next knives.
 
1500 grit is far beyond over kill on birch. 220 is considered fine enough, 400 is really as far as it goes. On denser woods like rosewoods and ebonys, the grain is much much finer and thus can take a finer polish. There is no reason to overwork yourself sanding any higher than 400. nice work though!
 
hellspawn415 said:
1500 grit is far beyond over kill on birch. 220 is considered fine enough, 400 is really as far as it goes. On denser woods like rosewoods and ebonys, the grain is much much finer and thus can take a finer polish. There is no reason to overwork yourself sanding any higher than 400. nice work though!
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Thanks for the advice, i'll give it a try on my next one if i don't decide to try and give maple a try
 
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they really work much the same. i dis-agree with hellspawn415 on the sanding though. the higher you go the sweeter it'll feel. you do have to watch out for feathering out, but if that does happen you can stiffen the fibers with shellac or even thin superglue(cyanoacrylate). just make sure you get rid of all the superglue or you'll have splotches in your finish. 1500 is not overkill, the wood loves it and it'll feel like silk. not trying to start an argument here, i've just worked with alot of birch, maple and willow.
 
neal70 said:
they really work much the same. i dis-agree with hellspawn415 on the sanding though. the higher you go the sweeter it'll feel. you do have to watch out for feathering out, but if that does happen you can stiffen the fibers with shellac or even thin superglue(cyanoacrylate). just make sure you get rid of all the superglue or you'll have splotches in your finish. 1500 is not overkill, the wood loves it and it'll feel like silk. not trying to start an argument here, i've just worked with alot of birch, maple and willow.
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it feels alot smoother in the hands after sanding down to 1500 , you're right.
 
hellspawn415 said:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/rules_for_sanding_wood

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/sanding-too-much/

The reason it feels smoother is that you are burnishing the surface. The grain in birch, maple and walnut is simply to large to benefit from the sanding. If you want to get a wood glassy smooth, you would be better served by using a wood with a finer gran like rosewood, ebony, ironwood or by using a stabilized wood.
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While we're on the subject, how would you recommend sanding walnut? I'd normally go up to 400, but would you go further?

Thanks
 
If its not stabilized, there really is no point. You could give it a little burnishing with a buffing wheel or the shoe shine method.
 
those are nice articles, but i will note that flexner commonly stains his projects in addition to finishing them. i tend to use a natural danish oil to allow the lustre of the wood to show. i find that wet-sanding through the higher grits adds considerably to the overall feel of the finish and hence, the piece.walnut and birch are two very dissimilar woods in terms of grain and overall fiber structure(i.e., one is porous and one is not). in sanding walnut 400 would certainly be fine given that you are using some type of penetrating oil finish.i would highly recommend wet sanding at least one coat if not more.you'll be amazed at the sensuous feeling. personally i'd go up to 600 if you can,but that's me. if you're using a lacquer type finish i would start as high as you feel will get imperfections out and go up from there. sanding sealer would be a good idea with a lacquer type finish as walnut has a porous surface.(that's one reason i like wet sanding oils-it creates a slurry that fills pores up-thus adding to the rich texture). scraping and/or burnishing are also nice ways to finish wood so as to remove sanding almost altogether-and the dust that comes with it. i hope i'm not offending anyone-i've been around and been a carpenter since about 5-and now i just turned 45. seems like it was yesterday when i bent my first nail(laugh). in the end it's what works for you, there is no "one way" to do things-but i would go with the grain on that walnut.:D
 
I have to disagree on the sanding thing.
For cabinet and furniture making a lot of the guys stop at 400 grit and then do a spray lacquer finish.
In addition to handle material I make band saw boxes using untreated woods.
On my projects I try to avoid any burnishing by sanding with a light touch and always using fresh/sharp sand paper.
With many domestic figured hardwoods there is an amazing transformation between 400 and 600 grit.
I like to do any wet sanding at 3 or 400 grit, followed by finer grits up to a very minimum of 600 grit.
I always try to avoid burnishing the wood with dull sandpaper or power buffing.


The difference between 400 grit and 600+ are difficult to see in a photo. But in person the 400 grit piece can look like you aren't done finishing yet.
If you want to see the difference finer grit sanding makes, do an image search of higher end custom guitars.
This PRS Guitar was made with figured Myrtlewood, which is a medium coarse wood.
67394686d43f5972d4e586d475791ee6.jpg
 
beautiful fiddleback on that guitar. Grumpy_Grinder i can't lie-i hate the taste of oak dust. i have headboard hand-carved from my 3x great grandfather from the old country(germany), so i think it's just in the blood, or saw dust, in my veins. burl source : i just checked out your site. people like you are a real pain in my wallet!:D
 
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as long as it got darker even after drying you should be good. if you don't like it just apply another coat wet sanding. it'll build up,up to a point and that's a good thing. and remember you can always go down a grit as long as you bring it back up. tung oil is super user friendly(hard to f--k up to be blunt) so you should be good to go:)
 
neal70 said:
as long as it got darker even after drying you should be good. if you don't like it just apply another coat wet sanding. it'll build up,up to a point and that's a good thing. and remember you can always go down a grit as long as you bring it back up. tung oil is super user friendly(hard to f--k up to be blunt) so you should be good to go:)
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thanks neal

grumpy_grinder
 
neal70 said:
those are nice articles, but i will note that flexner commonly stains his projects in addition to finishing them. i tend to use a natural danish oil to allow the lustre of the wood to show. i find that wet-sanding through the higher grits adds considerably to the overall feel of the finish and hence, the piece.walnut and birch are two very dissimilar woods in terms of grain and overall fiber structure(i.e., one is porous and one is not). in sanding walnut 400 would certainly be fine given that you are using some type of penetrating oil finish.i would highly recommend wet sanding at least one coat if not more.you'll be amazed at the sensuous feeling. personally i'd go up to 600 if you can,but that's me. if you're using a lacquer type finish i would start as high as you feel will get imperfections out and go up from there. sanding sealer would be a good idea with a lacquer type finish as walnut has a porous surface.(that's one reason i like wet sanding oils-it creates a slurry that fills pores up-thus adding to the rich texture). scraping and/or burnishing are also nice ways to finish wood so as to remove sanding almost altogether-and the dust that comes with it. i hope i'm not offending anyone-i've been around and been a carpenter since about 5-and now i just turned 45. seems like it was yesterday when i bent my first nail(laugh). in the end it's what works for you, there is no "one way" to do things-but i would go with the grain on that walnut.:D
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Hi Neal;
Interesting reply. Thanks for all the good, detailed info. I'm a bit confused about something, though--Are you talking about wet sanding WITH oil? I've never tried it or seen it done. If so, do you let one coat absorb and dry before you sand with the next coat? Any more information you could share would be greatly appreciated. I've used walnut on 3-4 knives now, and it's always come out looking a bit dull. That's a drag because I've seen some beautiful walnut handles, so I know it can be done.

Thanks,

Sprayman
 
When I made my recurve riser out of walnut I sander to 240 applied BLO & allowed to dry then applied the second coat after wiping the excess off I resanded with 240. You couldn't tell it wasn't done to 2000
 
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