Firearms and Hiking/Backpacking

Guyon

Guyon

Biscuit Whisperer
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First, can we talk about this topic on this forum? I've noticed that on some hiking/backpacking boards, the subject creates a fair amount of vitriolic response and has led to rants, pulled threads, etc. I'm hoping that the folks here are on more of an even keel. Based on some of the previous threads I've found, I think there's more level headedness here.

I have a Kel-Tec P-3AT which is a nice lightweight gun for hiking. Carries 6+1 .380 rounds (6 in the mag plus one in the chamber).

Am thinking though of upgrading to a Kel-Tec P-11--which would still be a pretty lightweight package--for a few reasons:

1) Better gripping pistol. The P-38T is small, but the trade off for someone with large hands has to do with control. I have added a mag-extension, but would still like something a little larger.
2) More rounds. The P-11 holds 10+1 rounds because of the double-stack mag.
3) More power in the 9mm Luger round. And perhaps slightly more availability of this round.

Thoughts here? Alternatives?
 
I guess my biggest question would be:
What are you defending yourself from? Or is this a basic survival/defense/food gathering tool?

For simple two legged defense, IMHO, the Kel-Tec would be OK, but from a durability/reliability standpoint, you could do much better. Think mini Glock, or Sig 239 for example.

For survival/defense/food gathering the options get REALLY wide open.

Any more info you could provide?
 
I have extensive backpacking, hiking, kayaking and canoeing experience with firearms. My bests advice, carry and don't tell anyone. You have it and only you should know that. If you carry in the open or let others know, you will raise suspicion and people will look at you funny. Not telling anyone lets you enjoy the woods just as much as the next guy without the sheeple response. By the way, ditch the fanny pack holster if you have one, its a dead giveaway.Get a synthetic (kydex or accumold nylon) and avoid leather for any activity around water. Also, be mindful of where you can't carry (i.e. near schools, state property, etc.)

Second best advice is go with durability. I have carried numerous makers and can say hands down that Glock is the way to go. The Hi-Cap mags are $22 bucks now and the guns are dirt cheap too. Whether or not you like them, you cannot deny they are going to function. They are light, can hold a "tactical" light, and will go bang everytime. Just make sure to get a good holster with solid retention. My Glock 17 is a great companion, its been immersed in water (fresh and salt), been covered in just about every substance known to man and, with regular cleaning, still works fine. Pick the caliber of your choice (for two or four-legged critters) the frame size and practice shooting.

Lastly, be realistic. Don't carry something you don't trust. I love 1911's and would carry one on the streets anyday. However, I wouldn't take my Wilson CQB the places I'd take my Glock 17. Practice with what you have and get comfortable with the gun. Remember the K.I.S.S. principle and go from there. Filter the hype of people saying only this only that (this includes me too) and realize that there are different strokes for different folks.

Hope this helps a little. Sorry for the late night rant.
 
I agree - more info would help.

Just working with what we have, though, I would suggest something a little bigger than the p-11. I have to admit I'm a fan of bigger bores than the 9mm, but I own a couple (including a p-11) of 9's & Know that they can do the job if everything goes right. The bore size is not what I mean.

A handgun the size of a P-11 is good for close-in problems, but lacks the better longer-range potential offered by larger guns. They're just plain easier to hit with at a distance if needed (firmer hold, longer sight radius, more velocity from a longer barrel). These things may not be important at Hand-shaking distance, but if you're out hiking, etc., the probability of needing the longer range to collect game or defend yourself from 4-legged predators (wild dogs, hogs you walk up on, etc.) is higher than 2-legged predators. Oh, and a good .357 mag revolver or .44 special, or even a longer-barreled and bigger 9mm auto works on the 2-legged kind, too! Just my opinion. :D
 
These are all good points, and the note about needing a longer sight radius for longer shots is a good one. Part of the reason I was considering the P-11 in the first place was the weight-to-caliber ratio (a lot of 9mm for the small package). I have a S&W 686--a fine outdoor gun, but not something I want to lug all over creation.

As for use...well, it's mainly about being prepared for anything, though my years in the woods have taught me to be more wary of predators of the two-legged kind than anything else. I've never run into wild dogs or a wild hog, though that's not to say that I never will.

If I were in an outdoor situation where I know food gathering is going to be an issue, I'm carrying a rifle anyway.

I did take a look at the Glock website and was interested in seeing that Glock makes larger caliber pistols in sizes approximating the Glock 19. A mid-sized .357 would be nothing to sniff at. Not exactly loading for bear, but darned near.

Good responses. Thanks.
 
You should be asking yourself, "How can I carry concealed in a hiking/camping/survival environment and still access the firearm quickly?"
 
Don't forget to look at some of those new ultralight alloy framed S&W's. They make 'em from .22 all the way up to the mighty .44 mag. (I don't think anyone could pay me enough to fire a cylinder from one of those orthopedic surgeon dream guns.)

I've heard that the .357's slap you pretty good, but they only weigh a few ounces.
 
I have carried, in the woods a Glock 17, 19, S&W Mod 19-5 w/ 2.5 inch barrel, a 1911A1, and a Ruger Single Six .22 mag.

The Glocks carry very well and give a high firepower to weight ratio. 9mm is fine for defense but way too light for animals in my opinion.

The most versatile by far is the .357 magnum revolver. You have a very wide range of ammo available from wadcutters for small game, shotshells, +P .38 special for defense, and heavy magnum loads if animals are a problem. The revolver allows you to split the cylinder between several loads giving you near instant ammo selection. When I carry the revolver I carry a shotshell as the first round and the rest as heavy magnum loads. I also carry a pair of speedloaders loaded with +P .38 special. I figure that if I ever need the speedloaders its because I'm in a gunfight and need the lighter load for control.

This year hunting in Alaska I carried a four inch S&W Mod 57 .41 magnum stoked with 230 grain Kieth solids from Buffalo Bore. The gun was heavy but comforting when the rifle was locked up in the hard scabbard on the ATV.

For food gathering the .22 can't be beat provided you can hit. It isn't much for defense. If that is your concern then carry a Glock 19. The Kel-Tec P11 is a fine gun for short range defense but has a trigger like a staple gun. The Glock trigger is far better.

Open carry is legal in many more places than you would think. Check your laws. A good website for this is www.packing.org Mac
 
I'm a tactical automatic guy myself most of the time,Glock,Sig etc.However,If it was a "in the woods" scenerio.I would have to put my faith more in a revolver,preferably at least a six shot 357 mag.I would say keep it lighter and more compact,no barrel over 4 inches.Stainless Steel would be my preference.I'm thinking Smith & Wesson model 686 type/size.
 
Well I am going out in a few days for some cold weather camping and will be packing a Glock 35. It has been modified to a heavier trigger(had to lose the 3.5# trigger) and I put XS sites on it. I will have 15 hollow points in it backed up by 2 more mags of full metal jacket. It will be carried on a pistol belt in a Bianchi flap holster. I have carried concealed in the woods and do when I expect to see a lot of folks. But this time of year I am not packing the gun under that many layers :) Just 1 man's opinion ;)
 
Guyon,
I'll say up front that I'm no fan of "Tupperware"guns. That said, there are several models from several makers in the auto department that chamber that old standby: .45ACP ready-made loads from blanks to (Black)Bear busters.
I carry both a S&W 1911Sc (28oz.) and a S&W AirLite 360Kitgun .357M/.38+P, Five shooter (12oz.). This last one is a real wrist buster; not one that you want to shoot much,(practice with something a little heaver) but it wasn't designed for lots of use. The pistol has a 4.25" bbl.; the revolver has a 3"bbl.
Dan
 
Im with a lot of others. I carry a 1911 in the street and in the field...but when I acquire a stainless .357 mag, that will be my field gun. I say this because the .357 mag will do what I want for my area if I do my part, and the stainless revolver is easy to maintain and clean in the field.

If you really want to stick to an auto, check out 10mm's (expensive ammo, but close to 41 mag in performance) or buy a 1911 and either shoot 45 ACP (iffy for actual hunting), or convert it to .45 Super, .400 Corbon, or .460 Rowland. The first two are relatively easy conversions that require minimal fitting and a change of springs, and, btw these are all wildcat cartridges that have expensive ammo. The advantage is the power that you get out of these cartridges. There are a number of threads posted on this topic and similar ones on www.1911forum.com as well as www.thehighroad.com. Go there and run a search.
 
The questions have already been asked:
1) What's the gun supposed to accomplish if you use it? Hunting, Small Game Harvesting, defense... and defense against what?

In my current state of residence (KS), I feel pretty well armed when I'm stumping around with a .22lr and a "kit gun"... but my kit gun is a 3"bbl S&W model 65. Very little 4-legged threats in rural KS other than feral dogs, and the .357 is more than up to the task; biggest threats are the two-legged kind the .357 was made for.

When I'm in Colorado or points North, I never venture out without either a centerfire rifle/carbine or my OTHER "Kit Gun", a 5"bbl S&W model 29. If I know I'm not in Bear Country I'll pack a Glock Model 20 with some potent handloads. My wife used to give me a good-natured ration of crap about it until one trip, long ago, when she squatted down in the bushes at night... and a cougar yowled at us from about 60 yards away. Nothin' like a dose of Nature to instill some reality into the picture. ;)

My opinions on outdoor handguns:
1) Small Game = .22lr
2) Human / lightweight Non-Human defense = .357mag
3) Heavyweight critters: .41/10mm are minimums, .44mag is optimal for most folks.
4) The biggest problems are holsters. You can carry ANYTHING outdoors in a shoulder-holster with a jacket over it, and shoulder or hip are the only two ways to go. DON'T hide the gun in your pack - it's useless there.
 
ILikeSA,
There's nothing "iffy" about.45ACP+P's. 230gr. at 500+ ft.lbs. at under 25yards.
I used a Magtech gold at about 15 yards on a 300+ # Blackbear. Both lungs and broke the off sholder.
Dan
 
Dan K said:
ILikeSA,
There's nothing "iffy" about.45ACP+P's. 230gr. at 500+ ft.lbs. at under 25yards.
I used a Magtech gold at about 15 yards on a 300+ # Blackbear. Both lungs and broke the off sholder.
Dan
Click to expand...

Hmm...I didnt know, as I dont have experience hunting with .45 ACP (it is my carry btw, 230 gr +P at 900 fps or 185 gr +P at 1250 fps[somewhere around there]) The 10mm and the others I listed are much more flat shooting for longer ranges, which is why I suggested them. (25 yds+) Im quite impressed with your story of the bear. I didnt realize that .45 ACP would do that. Now I have that much more confidence in my carry load :D I've heard different stories of 45 ACP on boars (some say it works, others say no) I have no qualms whatsoever with it on coyotes/dogs or anything even up to a cougar. I appreciate your input :)
 
I like revolvers and my pick would be the Taurus Tracker 41 mag in Titanium. I know it gets slammed on some of the gun forums but others seem very pleased with Taurus Revolvers. It probably would not ever need to be fired but is like buying insurance. You hope you never need it. Like other suggested, with extreemly light guns, practice with light loads or a heavier gun but practice with the carry gun a little.

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=425SH4C&category=Revolver

or

http://tinyurl.com/6ntz5

a good revierw is here

http://www.galleryofguns.com/shootingtimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=947

or here

http://tinyurl.com/4c8d4
 
Another wheelgun fan here. I have had many different hanguns in the past, autos and revolvers. What I have kept works really good and that is a .357 Ruger GP-100 in stainless. Low maint., reliable and accurate.
 
GhostWolf said:
Another wheelgun fan here. I have had many different hanguns in the past, autos and revolvers. What I have kept works really good and that is a .357 Ruger GP-100 in stainless. Low maint., reliable and accurate.
Click to expand...

I have one auto, a ruger p-95 but my revolvers are my favorites. I sold a 357 DW (regret it now) but still have my 44 DW and a Ruger Single Six with the extra 22 mag cylinder. The 44 is way to heavy for backpacking and the even the 22 is fairly heavy. guess you could call me a wheelgun fan:')
 
I think you have to put the gun with the situation. For the lower 48, the .357 should suffice for about anything, the larger calibers are better for the bigger animals up North, or the two legged variety.

I like a 357 snub or auto for around here, a S&W Model 60 or a Glock 33. For up North I like a .44 special airweight, or a chopped .44 mag.

My normal carry for the everyday human animal is a .45, which is a good do all caliber in it's own right, but my 60 snub is strangley accurate for the size of it, and can handle pretty hot loads.

If I could get away with it I'd just carry an 8" 12 gauge, but that would too practical, therefore it's against the "law".
 
Snub revolvers are far more accurate than most people can shoot. I shoot with Joe, a 73 year old man who carries a S&W Model 19 .357 in his back pocket. We shoot in a stripmine at garbage. He won't shoot at stuff less than 100 yards away, he only uses one hand. If you watch him closely you can see he picks up his target with his normal lenses and shifts to his bifocals to aim!

"OK, Dave, let's go for dat propane tank leanin' over on'da berm..." (Tank at 120 yards) Find tank, shift to bifocals, POP-TICK. A man wouldn't stand a chance.

It isn't the gun, its the man. For woods use the revolver is the better gun in my opinion. Practice in single action out to 100-150 yards and you will gain a new respect for what a .357 magnum can do for you. Even with a short barrel, when combined with good sights, the right load, and a smooth trigger, the .357 is far more versatile than you think.

Shoot much, shoot often. Mac
 
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