Firescale , No match for Master Williams

Mark Williams

Mark Williams

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The Master has been experimenting lately with W-2. He has been quenching in brine infused with a spirit guided and highly secret amount of sacred dish soap. :D Anyway.........

Enough of that nonsense. :)

I was getting ready to quench a squished cable blade in oil and decided since I had the sacred brine already available.... Why not?.

I heat the brine up to the point where I cant hold my hand in it any longer than about a second. Never can seem to find my thermometer.

I took the blade up to an A160 grit (whatever that is) 320?. Normalized two times and quenched on the third heat (carburizing flame in my forge) . Checked it with a file and it skated nicely. Tempered for 2 hrs immediately at 400. Came out a nice straw color. (meaningless I know). Anyway.......

Paid proper homage to the Mistress's domain of the house and decided to try a simple technique. I poured a little white vinegar on some 400 grit sandpaper and lightly rubbed the blade. I removed all the scale with minimal effort in less than 2 minutes. I will never quench in oil again.

Your mileage may vary if you cannot become one with the steel. :rolleyes:
 
Hey Mark - I will try this in a few weeks - Take a brass brush and after quenching right before the temper scrub the hell out of the blade. Kim told me about doing this. I'll let you know how it works out.

What about W-1? Have you tried it?
 
While heating oil is a good idea, heating brine makes it less effective. The proper solution is about 10%.
 
Mark Williams said:
Cold brine is a no-no Mr. C. I do think getting 64 rockwell proves it's effective.
Click to expand...


You got 64 on cable or the w2?
I've done the soak with the vinager overnight and buffed but haven't tried the masters way.....I will.
Was the egg raw or hard boiled?
Have you tried 5160 or 52100?
 
64 was on the W-2. I'll have to wait till I can get over to Jim's house to see what the cable ends up at after the temper.

I would imagine 5160 and 52100 would most likely go "PING" . I'll see what happens.
 
Can this be done on 1095 without cracking every other blade? If so, please share the recipe!
 
Just kidding :0

Theres no secret. Guys have been water quenching forever. Just make sure you do at least a couple of normalizing heats, even bevels and proper temperature of the steel when you quench. I dont really have a recipe for the soap. Just a good couple of healthy squirts to help break the surface tension. More than likely it would work just as good without the soap. I think a lot of folks are way overheating the steel and using an oxygen rich atmosphere that causes all the scale. Lord knows when I first started forging with a coke forge, I was making some scale like I was getting paid for it by the lb.

You could just do like Terry Primos and coat your blades with the stuff he uses :D
 
When you are quenching in water solutions you get an initial vapor stage which retards cooling . Warming the water increases the duration of the vapor stage.Soap solutions also increase the duration.Salt reduces the duration.....Sssooooo, you retarded the cooling and still came out ok !!! Well it's only a skinny blade....I'm still of the opinion that much of the cracking attributed to water quenching is due to decarb, overheating etc.
 
It would probably make your head spin to let you know that I've quenched in plain heated dish soap :) and it worked.
 
SSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH...........Master.
Don't release these secrets to the masses. Let them believe there is majic in what we do. We must keep the secrets of the Dawn (dish soap) till the end of time. ;)
 
Hey Master Chicken Toes.......I want my money back on that bucket of scale!
Tried any other brands of detergent? Wonder how GoJo would work, best (or worse) of two worlds!
Larry - I think there are a lot of folks out there that "stay the same". Well, more like moths around a light, just keep circling 'til they run out of go. Kind of in a rut, you know, a grave with the ends kicked out.
You guys are starting to creep me out with all the Hoo-doo stuff. It's all physics that we're just to lazy to study in depth. Besides, who cares so long as you get the desired results?
A toad's a toad.
 
Interestingly enough a toad is a toad ! :D
not sure if I'm on the subject here , being a noob and all but.
First two knives I quenched using plain 'ol vegetable oil , D2 steel by the way , I had scale like a school of seabass and it was a b**ch to get off. (I keep forgetting to buy motor oil)
last knife I used extra virgin olive oil (what i had on hand) and got hardly any scale and what scale there was easily came off with a green scrubby.
Hmmm.........................................................................
 
I used OLD chip frying vegtable oil. no additives other than whatever leeched out of the chips :P very little scale, the knife blade went black but it came off very easily with simple sandpaper.
 
What works for me is on a moon lite night draw a circle with chalk and set 3 candles around the quench tank then say mumbo-jumbo as I plunge the blade and it comes out shiny bright. OH I forgot I also coat the blade with PBC :D
 
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