firestarting and knife sharpening .

[Kevin the grey]

I have a couple of questions . Would a small knife steel be good to draw a spark from with flint ? If so I am looking for a small one . Lets say 5 or 6 inches .

If a steel wouldn,t work are there any fire starting rods , stones or steels that could be used to sharpen a knife ?

I am trying to gather a small kit I could attach to my becker necker . As its a neck knife I want the kit as small and multi use as possible .

Any ideas or variations are welcome as long as they are small and fairly inexpensive .

 

[Cliff Stamp]

If you take a flint and use it to strike sparks from a steel rod you will quickly degrade the rods ability to act as a burnisher. You can use your knife to get a spark from the flint and carry a suitable sharpener. A steel as well isn't a sharpener, it just burnishes the edge, and this is rarely a good idea for sharpening for a variety of reasons, however if your knife is soft enough, a piece of a file will sharpen it and can be used as a spark source.

-Cliff

 

[Kevin the grey]

Cliff I have to agree I am perhaps asking too much . I agree the steel would be a poor substitute for an abrasive . I was trying to eliminate one part of the triangle of sharpener/flint and striker , The knife can replace the striker easy enough . It cannot of xourse sharpen itself . I thought perhaps one of those ferrous rods may work as an abrasive sharpener . I am sure if I delve into my stone/sharpener bag I can come up with a small piece . It in itself could only be used as a sharpener . The end result of all this is a kit I could attach to my becker necker sheath wihout feeling I have a brick swinging from my neck . There is a diamond nail file which is ultra thin . I find the abrasive is too coarse for ease of handling .

 

[shotgunner11]

I have found a half of a hacksaw blade is a great thing to include into a small kit. It works as a saw for obvious reasons and it also works well as a striker for a flint, I also have found it nice to have that thin piece of metal for a few other reasons. It cant sharpen a knife but it proves worth its space and weight in other areas.

 

[Kevin the grey]

Thanks Shotgunner . You are right considering how thin they are they might be a useful addition .

 

[Cliff Stamp]

It isn't difficult to sharpen a knife on a rock and you don't need to be overly particular about the type. If this is a problem due to location as there are really no rocks then sandpaper is really minimal from a weight/space perspective. Just take a piece of duct tape put a piece of sandpaper on it and stick it on the sheath and now you will always have an integral emergency sharpener.

-Cliff

 

[Thomas Linton]

One advantage of the artificial "flint" ("metal match," "ferrocerium") is that any sharp, hard edge (knife spine) can strike sparks -- and lots hotter than with natural flint and steel.

 

[Kevin the grey]

Cliff I have had limited success with common stone sharpening . Like you said it would do in an emergency . The sandpaper angle is one I,ll think about . It sounds like it would work well unless you gouged the sandpaper .
I think your confidence with the sandpaper reflects your level of experience .It is not that I doubt the efficacy of the sandpaper . I just think I,d find it a little fragile .

 

[dantzk8]

A steel as well isn't a sharpener, it just burnishes the edge, and this is rarely a good idea for sharpening for a variety of reasons...Cliff

Cliff,

I only use a diamond/ceramic whetstone to sharpen/brunish but i've read,somes years ago, in a french knife magazine, a knife maker recommend the use of a steel or ceramic rod to sharpen a not too dull edge. What are the reasons which make you think it's not a good idea?

dantzk.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Cliff I have had limited success with common stone sharpening .

Sharpening, while fairly simple at a basic level, has complications, and is made worse because the nature of the steel effect the process so what can succeed on one knife can fail on another. I would not in general recommend someone try to learn on a random rock, however once you figure out how to sharpen on a benchstone then the exact same knowledge is directly applied.

It sounds like it would work well unless you gouged the sandpaper .

Work with the edge trailing similar to honing a straight razor on leather.

What are the reasons which make you think it's not a good idea?

It leaves weakened metal which can been overstressed along the edge, this causes it to rapidly lose its sharpness again, much faster than a honed edge on a suitable abrasive. If you are going to steel, do it frequently, don't let the knife get really dull, keep the passes low, and don't increase the angle that much over the honing angle.

-Cliff

 

[Kevin the grey]

Thanks Cliff . I have read of trailing the edge to sharpen . In fact it was recommended to me for sharpening a convex blade . It does seem a little outlandish which would proabably disappear with success . There is also the question of when you push sharpen you are pushing/abraiding the edge into a compacted edge . If you draw/trail sharpen do you not tend to draw out the edge which may leave bits of metal along a drawn out edge ?

As far as steeling the edge ? It is my understanding it is not true sharpening and more a realignment of the existing edge . Which I think is your original point .

I would think that a ceramic :Steel: would act more like a stone in the fact that it would abraid as well as realign . I keep a two foot by 1/2 inch piece of ceramic tile which I use like a steel/stone . Kept by the dishpan I pass my kitchen knives over it a few times after washing them .

 

[dantzk8]

Cliff,

Thanks for the reply. As i generally put a convex edge on my knives i'm not concerned by the use of a rod to maintain an edge but it's useful to supplement the list of what can damage an edge.

dantzk.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

There is also the question of when you push sharpen you are pushing/abraiding the edge into a compacted edge . If you draw/trail sharpen do you not tend to draw out the edge which may leave bits of metal along a drawn out edge ?

In general steeling is mainly used when the very edge, which is micron level in thickness, is bent to the side rather than compacted directly as most media are not hard enough to induce a significant compressive load on the edge because the knife is way harder than what is being cut.

I have checked under low magnification, 10-20x, and the results (trailing/leading) look idential on worn edges and the sharpness is the same. What you said in general seems logical though and it might be of interest to compare the two methods in an extended trial.

All the commercial steels I know like Razor's Edge Moustrap all use edge into steeling, so it would be interesting if trailing was superior.

As far as steeling the edge ? It is my understanding it is not true sharpening and more a realignment of the existing edge .

Yes you can see this clearly under light magnification as the deformed edge, which will be rippled like a sin wave, will be restored to straight in 1-2 passes. As you keep steeling you start cold working the edge which is generally not a good thing.

I would think that a ceramic :Steel: would act more like a stone in the fact that it would abraid as well as realign .

Yes, the diamond and ceramic rods will abrade steel readily and while they do align, they also just cut off weakened steel, especially the diamond rods which are actually really coarse though usually called fine.

-Cliff