Firesteel.com Vs LMF....and some puzzlement

[Mistwalker]

This didn't start out as an intentional comparison. It started out as a hike along the river bank down in the gorge with the intentions of doing more research with the firesteel.com firesteel in adverse conditions. Some of the leaves are just starting to change and the autumn berries are decorating the trails with their bright colors.

The Kudzu is taking over a lot of this area. I really need to try some of that starch drink Fujita told me about one day.

I found what I believe is some English Thistle. I want to try this as tinder later when it dries.

I found a few good patches of river cane. I want to go back one Saturday when I have some time and some cordage and look for some willow for the hoops and make a fish trap.

I carried the same piece of fatwood I used to conduct the earlier experiments with this firesteel. I wanted to test the firesteel more in real adverse conditions so I didn't use a base of any kind. For this experiment I simply scraped off a pile of fuzz and some slivers onto some wet leaves on the ground.

I tried several times to get the tinder to ignite using the firesteel.com steel. I did manage to get a few of the spastic sparks to land on the tinder but most bounced off. To me, at that time, that was no big deal...nothing I hadn't already experienced...and just part of the learning. BUT, then I just stopped getting any sparks...none at all. I cleaned the edge on the surface of the spine I was using to spark with, and then I even tried the edge of the knife...but all to no avail. I could still not get any good sparks...just hunks of the steel to come off and a few tiny sparks. At this point I pulled out the LMF firesteel in the loop on my knife sheath and tried it to see what was going on. With two sparkings of the LMF Army model I have been carrying and using for months, which sparked the same as ever, I had flame.

Now I am really puzzled as to what happened. I didn't change techniques or do anything different...the sparks just quit happening. I am going to experiment with it some more in a bit outside on the porch, maybe try the other end or something. I do know I am not going to stop me from experimenting with the misch metal steels as I have heard too many good things about them from other people. However the ones I have heard the most feedback on have been the ones sold by going gear so I think I need to order one from Storl now. I hear the badgers are awesome.



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[sodak]

I've had the same problem. Once in a while, the shavings produce fiercely burning embers that last 10 sec or so, but they are not consistent.

 

[Rotte]

I've had trouble using Firesteel.com rods in the past. There is a little technique difference between those and the LMF steels.

I've found that the Firesteel.com rods work best with a sharp edge and fast pull. Usually.

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Brian

Great pics :thumbup:

...I found what I believe is some English Thistle. I want to try this as tinder later when it dries.

This looks a bit like what we call scotch thistle

The parachute seeds make a decent flash tinder when dry

The stems work Ok as well once they have been broken/fluffed up a bit (just keep an eye out for the spines )



Kind regards
Mick

 

[Md 25v]

the LMF has very little aluminum mixed into the Misch Metal that the rod is made from. The LMF is a harder steel that is much easier to strike but that is both good and bad depending on what kind of tinder your trying to light. The ferro rods from firesteel.com have are 30% aluminum and because of that they take a different technique to get good sparks. The good part about the firesteel.com steels is that the sparks will burn for a lot longer (they use the aluminum as a fuel) and will be quite a bit hotter. For the high aluminum steels you need a very fast strike with high pressure to get good sparks reliably. The LMF is easy to strike no matter what your technique. Hope that helps.

 

[Mistwalker]

I've had the same problem. Once in a while, the shavings produce fiercely burning embers that last 10 sec or so, but they are not consistent.

I have been practicing with it off and on since I first got it. It took a bit for me to find the technique to get it to spark at all but once I figured it out it was getting pretty consistent. The last couple of time it took a bit to get the spastic sparks to the tinder pile but it did fine otherwise. I have seen some reeeeaally big sparks that burned a LOT longer than the LMF steels too. Then today at first it was doing as usual and then without changing anything I was doing the sparks just quit happening. I checked the end of the steel and could see nothing different. I wiped it off and tried again and nothing. I turned it over some and still nothing.

I've had trouble using Firesteel.com rods in the past. There is a little technique difference between those and the LMF steels.

I've found that the Firesteel.com rods work best with a sharp edge and fast pull. Usually.

Thanks for the info Rotte. I know they require a different technique and thought I had it down. The knife I am using for this has an acute angle beveled spine just for use with a firesteel and it works really well with the LMF steels and worked fine with the firesteel.com up till now. I have started several fires with it over the last few weeks. I can't really feel any big difference on the edge of the spine but I guess I'll take a stone to it and then try again.... *shruggs* maybe the FS.com is just a little more picky??

 

[dawsonbob]

Another good post with very good pics, Mist. Yes, please try the Badger from GG. It's the best I've ever used, but one of your comparisons would be great.

 

[Rotte]

*shruggs* maybe the FS.com is just a little more picky??

Well that's my impression. I agree with what Md 25V says as well about the sparks being hotter and lasting longer. I just wish it weren't such a pain to get them to spark reliably.

 

[Mistwalker]

G'day Brian

Great pics :thumbup:




This looks a bit like what we call scotch thistle

The parachute seeds make a decent flash tinder when dry

The stems work Ok as well once they have been broken/fluffed up a bit (just keep an eye out for the spines )



Kind regards
Mick

Hullo Mick,

Glad you liked the pics. Thanks for that info, I'll try them out later....if it ever stops raining.

Yeah...lol, I already noticed the pointy little spines it's a wicked little plant.

the LMF has very little aluminum mixed into the Misch Metal that the rod is made from. The LMF is a harder steel that is much easier to strike but that is both good and bad depending on what kind of tinder your trying to light. The ferro rods from firesteel.com have are 30% aluminum and because of that they take a different technique to get good sparks. The good part about the firesteel.com steels is that the sparks will burn for a lot longer (they use the aluminum as a fuel) and will be quite a bit hotter. For the high aluminum steels you need a very fast strike with high pressure to get good sparks reliably. The LMF is easy to strike no matter what your technique. Hope that helps.

Thanks...maybe I did stop pushing hard enough. In three minutes when the brownies come out of the oven....and then five minutes later after I eat one I'll go check it out again.

 

[Odaon]

I don't know how you're sparking it. But with the Misch Metal steels (Storl's are the only I've tried) it works better to pull the steel back. I've been using the GG steels for a while and haven't had a problem, they take a bit of getting used to.

 

[Mistwalker]

Well that's my impression. I agree with what Md 25V says as well about the sparks being hotter and lasting longer. I just wish it weren't such a pain to get them to spark reliably.

I agree, they would really be awesome if they were at least consistent. I understand the hard to control as it is a somewhat violent reaction that gives them such hot sparks of burning metal.

I still want to check out one from going gear though. Everyone I talk to that has them loves them. I'm going to love whichever one I can most consistently get fire under adverse conditions with. I hear that some firesteels are just junk however those people have as of yet never put a brand name with the accusation...so I'm not sure they even know the brand.

 

[Mistwalker]

I don't know how you're sparking it. But with the Misch Metal steels (Storl's are the only I've tried) it works better to pull the steel back. I've been using the GG steels for a while and haven't had a problem, they take a bit of getting used to.

I was holding the knife still and pulling the steel away as I have been ever since I figured out that that worked better with a firesteel (but I do that the same with the LMF just not as hard and fast). There were very hot sparks at first...I mean big, white hot sparks...and then there were none, well a couple of tiny ones in several tries.

 

[TheGame]

I've only had the LMF and GG, but I can say the GG ones work better for me. They throw more fierce sparks, and will light some things that the LMF ones didn't light.

 

[Mistwalker]

I've only had the LMF and GG, but I can say the GG ones work better for me. They throw more fierce sparks, and will light some things that the LMF ones didn't light.

That was my thoughts on it after playing with the firesteel.com steel the other day.


Now an update.

I just went outside and played with this firesteel some more. I tried the other end of the steel and once I got through the outer coating I got some good sparks. Then I turned it around again. At first all I managed to do was just scrape off some long slivers of metal that stuck on the edge of the spine. This happened four times and then sparks again and I am now once again able to get huge white hot sparks. I almost landed one on my daughters blow up pool, but shhhhhh don't tell anybody. I'm not sure what's up with it. Is there a chance it could have just been an uneven mix of the metals when making it?

 

[stingray4540]

I'm not sure what's up with it. Is there a chance it could have just been an uneven mix of the metals when making it?

Sounds like that may be the case.
I have a little 1/4" steel I got from ebay, it worked fine until I got to about the middle, then it quit working like you experienced, so I started using it from the other(still round) side, and it works fine.

 

[Mistwalker]

Sounds like that may be the case.
I have a little 1/4" steel I got from ebay, it worked fine until I got to about the middle, then it quit working like you experienced, so I started using it from the other(still round) side, and it works fine.

Yeah, I was just getting into it pretty good...maybe about 3/32" deep when it did that, but then after scraping off those slivers it is back to the way it started with good sparks. I am going to order a 3/8" Badger from Storl and see what I can do with that. I do love the big molten globs of burning metal these type throw. I can see some good uses for them. I think they are fantastic for less than ideal conditions and good for a lot of tinders but maybe I need to plan on not all of it throwing sparks, lol, I already know I need to plan on the majority of the sparks not hitting the tinder ( I hope I get better at that over time). It's no biggie, hell that's the whole point of the experiments is to learn what to expect. It would be unfair for me to judge a company, much less a type of tool, on one firesteel alone, I just wanted to hear from others on this. I do know that, with as much force as these need to be put under in order to get sparks, if I ever buy one in the little tubes I'll still hold the steel when I spark it and I'll not try to use the tube as a handle.

 

[Anrkst6973]

Hello Mistwalker, Glad to see your still out in the rain building fires! (its been raining every day here too), a while back I bought 6 or 7 Firesteels from a place that was going out of business real cheap and I've had them stop sparking too. I came to the same conclusion that it must just be places in the steel that lack the "ferro" to produce good sparks..being a stubborn s.o.b. I just keep at that section and its starts working again. My technique is to scrape slowly over the tinder a few times and build up just a wee bit o dust on the tinder then really lean into it fast and hard to create a shower of sparks..very rarely do I not get a "poof",presto flames on the first try. Try it out,maybe it will work for you. As always a great thread! Best to you, Anrkst

 

[Loosearrow]

Had the same problem with a number of mine and thought the variation was due to the sharpness of the scraper so I have been experimenting on that end. Maybe it is a difference in composition within the rod. My LMF sparks easy, lots of flash. The Going Gear ones throw more of a glob of molten spark when working.

 

[Mistwalker]

Hello Mistwalker, Glad to see your still out in the rain building fires! (its been raining every day here too), a while back I bought 6 or 7 Firesteels from a place that was going out of business real cheap and I've had them stop sparking too. I came to the same conclusion that it must just be places in the steel that lack the "ferro" to produce good sparks..being a stubborn s.o.b. I just keep at that section and its starts working again. My technique is to scrape slowly over the tinder a few times and build up just a wee bit o dust on the tinder then really lean into it fast and hard to create a shower of sparks..very rarely do I not get a "poof",presto flames on the first try. Try it out,maybe it will work for you. As always a great thread! Best to you, Anrkst

Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it. Lol, that's the best time of all to practice!!

Thanks for the input, I'll have to keep that in mind in the future.

Had the same problem with a number of mine and thought the variation was due to the sharpness of the scraper so I have been experimenting on that end. Maybe it is a difference in composition within the rod. My LMF sparks easy, lots of flash. The Going Gear ones throw more of a glob of molten spark when working.

Because the knife is of my own design and the beveled spine still somewhat experimental I thought maybe it was the scraper too and was going to to a stone to it, but after getting home and working with the firesteel some more...and scraping off those slivers of metal...it went back to throwing the good sparks with no changes at all to the scraper.

I like the big globs A LOT so I think I just need to get a couple of the bigger ones to make up for me not getting the sparks to the tinder and any possible inconsistencies in the metal. I think I will keep both kinds in my kit though as I see different applications for each steel.

 

[storl]

I'm going to love whichever one I can most consistently get fire under adverse conditions with.

UST Sparkie! Seriously, it rules and is by far the easiest to use of everything I sell. I've heard a lot of people ask about it's durability, so I'll just say that I have completely used up five of them while giving demonstrations to customers with zero problems.

I hear that some firesteels are just junk however those people have as of yet never put a brand name with the accusation...so I'm not sure they even know the brand.

They are usually ones people pick up off of ebay. There are dealers out there selling some garbage alloys that are of poor quality and are very hard to use. I'm not saying all of the ebay ones are crap, so make sure you buy from a reputable seller.