Firesteel handle joining methods.

JC in SC

JC in SC

Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
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If you saw my recent posts on my new Fiddleback Hunter and the sheath that Talfuchre made for it, you might have noticed the empty firesteel loop in the photographs. I got a beautiful piece of wenge from Andy at Fiddleback to make a matching firesteel handle. My question is how to join the firesteel to this piece of wenge. The catch is that I would like to be able to remove the handle if/when the firesteel has been worn out. Below are the options that I have come up with or seen others employ and perceived draw backs of each.

1) Set screws. This would involve inserting a threaded stainless steel tube orthogonal to the hole for the fire steel. The tube would be glued or epoxied in place and I would likely drill the hole for the firesteel afterward. Some sort of removable thread locker could be applied to the set screws so that they don't back out in the field. I could possibly machine flats into the firesteel in order to prevent rotation of the firesteel and a more secure hold once the set screws are installed. This would be the most work of the three and could also prove ineffective unless reasonably tight tolerances are maintained.

2) Epoxy. Drill hole, apply epoxy the the firesteel and insert into the hole. This would probably be the most effective design, providing the tightest hold of the firesteel. Removability here is highly questionable.

3) Press-Fit. Drill hole slightly smaller than the firesteel. Press the firesteel into the handle. I think tolerances here would be highly critical. Too loose a fit and there will be little or no retention of the firesteel. Too tight a fit could possibly split the wood (I'm not sure how strong wenge is).

Perhaps I'm over thinking all of this and should just go with option 2? I'm posting here because I'm hoping to gain some insight from some fellow W&SSers on what works in the field and what doesn't.
 
Out of curiosity, how long will a firesteel last you? If it's as long as it is me, then you might be ready for a new handle by then, anyway. If it were me, I would just go ahead and epoxy it into the handle.
 
dawsonbob said:
Out of curiosity, how long will a firesteel last you? If it's as long as it is me, then you might be ready for a new handle by then, anyway. If it were me, I would just go ahead and epoxy it into the handle.
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I honestly have no idea, which probably means a long while. I did rough it up quite a bit though on my first fire via firesteel last week. I'm planning to keep the knife indefinitely, so I'm hoping to have the matching wenge handle as long as I have the knife.
 
Luckily Wenge is available in large boards and isn't all that expensive compared with many other exotic woods. Epoxy it in.

If you're feeling sentimental and the wenge pieces are from the same board, keep the chunk of wood and buy some wenge online or at the nearest exotic hardwood dealer. It's pretty uniform looking stuff.
 
Something I recently did-- gorilla glue. I rough up the steel where it will be inserted into the wood or antler, apply a small amount of water to the steel then pit the glue into the hole. Place the steel into the wood and clamp. Once it hardens, it is set really well and won't come out with use. I recently had to remove a steel from the antler because it was worn. I simply placed the horn into a vice, grabbed the steel with channel locks and twisted. Worked like a charm. The next one slipped right in.. Gorilla glue works on wood ceramic and most metals. I am happy with it.
 
I use two part epoxy on the ones I sell. Clean the protective oil off the rod, rough it up with a SAK saw or low grit sandpaper, and epoxy away. I've had a couple of customers come back and say theirs fell out on them, but that was before I cleaned the rods and roughed them up. Haven't had any say they have had problems since then.

Like others have said, by the time your firesteel is used up, you will probably be ready for a new handle anyway. Epoxy will loosen up and lose some grip when you heat it in an oven, but I have no idea what that will do to the wenge, especially since the grain is so loose/wide on wenge.
 
i used JB weld and its practically become one. cant pry it of if i wanted to. :D
 
I always used a simple brass compression fitting. In fact, we used to use plastic PVC with a threaded cap to hold tinder in, before the nicer capsules started coming out.

If I was you, I would get a brass compression fitting the size of your ferro rod, 1/4'', 3/8'', or 1/2'' and get the compreesion fitting to fit it at the hardware store. Get the smallest pipe fitting for the other end, 1/8'' pipe unless it is 1/2'' rod, then the smallest you can go is 1/4'' pipe.

Drill a hole in the wood for what ever size pipe thread you end up with and epoxy and screw it into the wood.

Now in a seperate compression fitting install the compression sleeve on your ferro rod as this takes some force to compress and would probably over time crack your wood. Then remove the ferro rod with the compression sleeve compressed on it and reinstall it onto your wood handle.

When you need a new ferro rod, get a new $0.25 compression sleeve and install it on your new ferro rod and you have a brand new set up.

Polish up the brass to make it look nice on your wooden handle. I am not sure why these are not used more for replaceable ferro rods and capsules.


http://www.plumbingsupply.com/compress.html
 
I wondered about the same thing. I have been playing around with them for awhile. My last few as gifts were made by drilling a hole into the antler or rounding out the leg bone of a coyote. Pushing in a small copper or brass tube tight. The inner diameter of the metal tube is slightly larger that the 1/4 ferro rod. I found out that if I take a small strip of braintaned leather, which is kind of spongy, and wrap it around the end of the rod lengthwise I can also compression fit the rod into the metal tube and it will hold just fine. Then, I don't have to remake the handle and the ferro rods are cheap enough. These have mostly been made as gifts.
 
I've wondered several times ( even though I haven't had the chance to try it) if a handle and firesteel couldn't be threaded via tap and die set and then screwed together, maybe with a little locktite in the threads. Then when it gets about worn out it could be unscrewed and a new one put in.

I don't know how well it would work but might be worth a try.

David
 
Epoxy it..and it seems if you want to refit it later, then just bore out the remnants and place a new one...
 
I've been thinking about using Gorilla Glue also. How much of the rod should be inserted into the handle to get a good hold? 1/4"? 1/2"? More? Less?....
 
PharmBoy01 said:
I've been thinking about using Gorilla Glue also. How much of the rod should be inserted into the handle to get a good hold? 1/4"? 1/2"? More? Less?....
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Absent a mechanical fastener of some kind, I would put grooves across the base of the rod and try to get a good 3/4 - 1" of "tang" inside the block. The grooves give extra spaces for the epoxy to get into and help prevent it slipping out. This may be overkill, but I like overkill. :D
 
I used Gorilla GLue on mine...works good. I used natural micarta.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. It sounds like simple glue/epoxy will be my best bet. Has anyone tried machining firesteel material before? Cutting some grooves as was suggested seems like a good idea; however, I don't want to start throwing sparks and/or molten globs of metal all over the place in the process. I guess extremely low turning speeds would be in order here.
 
I would go with Gorilla Glue. It expands to fill any voids that may have been left, and really latches on to dissimilar materials.
 
Epoxy actually will give you the option to remove and replace the firesteel... heat softens it easily.

I used epoxy to put a small antler button on one of my firesteels. I used J.B. Weld to attach a couple of others to small aluminum waterproof containers. I regret not using epoxy, as I'm pretty sure the J.B. Weld is permanent.

Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
JC in SC said:
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. It sounds like simple glue/epoxy will be my best bet. Has anyone tried machining firesteel material before? Cutting some grooves as was suggested seems like a good idea; however, I don't want to start throwing sparks and/or molten globs of metal all over the place in the process. I guess extremely low turning speeds would be in order here.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about the grooves depending on the material you use. Most epoxy's (and glues for that matter) work best when there isn't much glue, but a good amount of pressure. Super glue works best in very thin layers, globs of it don't work at all and actually take a very long time to harden.

And if you do decide to machine it, make sure to make a video. ;)

I would say either hand file or get some liquid N2 and spray it on the rod as you machine it.
 
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