Firewood: Here's How It's Done (I Need To Vent)

redsquid2

redsquid2

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I go on backpacking trips, with groups of 4 - 12 people. We meet online, arrange carpools, and then go to the trail head. There is ususally an "organizer" with some assumed level of outdoor skills.

Here is when I want to start screaming at people: We find a campsite in the back country. People pitch tents. Maybe a crew goes for water. Then, people start gathering firewood, and I start to notice they're doing it wrong. People bring firewood that is wet, sometimes even slippery, soaking wet. They pick up firewood that is lying flat on the ground! WTF!? I know some of these people are seasoned outdoors people. I want to yell "STOP THE INSANITY!"

I patiently forage for sticks that are suspended in brush, or otherwise up away from the ground.

Usually, I test the wood for relative moisture, by pressing it against my upper lip and/or cheek. I can feel how moist or dry it is by doing this. This is the way it's done, dammit. But I don't notice other people doing this.

I need to scream at them, "DRY - GOOD!! MOIST - BAD!! ME TEACH YOU HOW DO THIS!!" talking like I'm Cookie Monster, dumbing it down as much as possible, so they get it.

The fire always gets going, eventually. Still, so much time could be saved, assuming we want a warm fire, and we want it quickly.

Yeah, yeah, I know, you can make anything burn, if you pour enough white gas on it. ;)
 
Also, it's good to practice the skill of making a good feather stick. Come on, people!

I'm a 52-year-old grouch, who was raised in the Boy Scouts.
 
Believe it or not sometimes sticks taken off the ground are ok in a well developed fire or if conditions are especially forgiving but yea, off the ground is almost always better especially on start up. On the other hand wet wood in stove is almost always a train wreck and I usually toss much of what others collect as it doesn't pass my inspection. Rant on brother. :)
 
Woods Walker said:
And Birch bark. :)
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We are all ignorant about some topics. People just don't have experience with fires these days as compared to prior generations.

"Birch bark" I remember birch from when I lived in central Alberta. Not so much around here except planted in residential yards or McDonald's landscaping. But Happy Day, the church down the street cut down a clump of birch, and I have bags of bark. Great stuff!

If you have encountered Leave No Trace, that philosophy teaches using only wood from the ground: "Only use sticks from the ground that can be broken by hand." BUT LNT is doubtful about wood fires overall.
 
Thomas Linton said:
We are all ignorant about some topics. People just don't have experience with fires these days as compared to prior generations.

"Birch bark" I remember birch from when I lived in central Alberta. Not so much around here except planted in residential yards or McDonald's landscaping. But Happy Day, the church down the street cut down a clump of birch, and I have bags of bark. Great stuff!

If you have encountered Leave No Trace, that philosophy teaches using only wood from the ground: "Only use sticks from the ground that can be broken by hand." BUT LNT is doubtful about wood fires overall.
Click to expand...

Leave not trace can be irrational. For some reason they prefer iso/pro canister stoves to a hobo stove burning twigs. I kid you not. LOL! No one told them the fine ash liberates minerals back into the soil. Oh well.



Did I post my Hydrocarbon rant?

Edit. Ok brother I just posted it.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...rocarbon-controversy!?p=15174926#post15174926
 
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Woods Walker said:
Leave not trace can be irrational. For some reason they prefer iso/pro canister stoves to a hobo stove burning twigs. I kid you not. LOL! No one told them the fine ash liberates minerals back into the soil. Oh well.



Did I post my Hydrocarbon rant?

Edit. Ok brother I just posted it.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...rocarbon-controversy!?p=15174926#post15174926
Click to expand...

Yes, Mors Kochanski should be required reading on this. The dominant idea of our time is that if you don't see it, it's not happening. The materials used by most backpackers are much more devastating than locally procured materials and wood shelters/fires. Materials are not dropped to the earth by a stork for our use. A tent alone requires metals and oil to be removed from the ground and shipped around the world. It may appear to be Leave No Trace, but this is a solipsism (an idea that nothing exists outside of oneself). Wash your plastic-based clothes and you are sharing that plastic with the rest of the world as it bioaccumulates and enters the drinking water; rely on materials drilled out of the ground and a huge trace is being left, just elsewhere.

Beyond this there is the philosophy which leaves a much larger trace. In many ways the whole industry of tourism backpacking is leaving a huge trace on the environment. In many parks you cannot really use local materials, they subscribe to one of two dominant theories: either forest fire management or wild/unkempt forests. In each case we are separated from nature, and the woods just becomes another tourist attraction, an entertaining place to get away from it all. Meanwhile these places of beauty develop line-ups and become overcrowded with people using oil-based equipment that leaves a huge trace somewhere else. There is nothing really natural about locations with line-ups and overcrowding, if anything they turn these places into a zoo and actually further distance us from nature. The sites become permanently scarred by tourist practises and pilgrimages.

This means that the forests in one's backyard often become 'wild', or in other words unused, while people have to travel and seek out bureaucratic processes for going into nature. The forests then go through long processes of either choking each other out and/or accumulating excessive dead material which can be disastrous in the event of dry season fires. Brush trees and dry dead material make for poor forests, and the philosophy ignores that humans lived along with animals for millions of years in forests. Now that the ecosystems have been destroyed and many animals wiped out there is no easy return to proper forests, and they will not just balance out on their own, especially when humans continue to alter the climate and dump accelerants into the forests.

Proper forest management, and ironically the use of fire itself, would actually help prevent wildfires. Many of these wildfires are occurring in part because of the hypocritical Leave No Trace philosophy (which is itself based on the absurd scientism of ecology - developed from irrational Cold War game theory and the idea that nature acts like a computer). Wise forest practises and fire use would help prevent these disasters, but today there is not a lot of wisdom left and it tends to be attacked as 'politically incorrect' or 'privilege'.

redsquid2, have you actually discussed the fire issues with your group? If you're getting so upset about it then it may be coming across wrong. Otherwise, if they simply adhere to Leave No Trace you may have to just leave it or go on your own trips. If the fire gets going it's not that big of a deal, and a proper fire can dry out wet wood very quickly. At some point you could calmly suggest you would like to start the fire this time, and if others are helping collect wood politely ask them to leave the wet wood or set it aside. If they see how well you can make a fire they may learn from it. But never underestimate the willingness of people to not learn, or even scoff at suggestions of what was once common sense.
 
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redsquid2 said:
Also, it's good to practice the skill of making a good feather stick. Come on, people!

I'm a 52-year-old grouch, who was raised in the Boy Scouts.
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Dear Mr Grouch
then teach them the skills you have the Scouts way cheerfully
 
And you can live in some of the largest cities in North America and still gather natural accelerants from park ornamentals. Don't damage any trees and no one cares.
 
upnorth said:
And you can live in some of the largest cities in North America and still gather natural accelerants from park ornamentals. Don't damage any trees and no one cares.
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Yep. I live in a very densely populated part of Chicago. I see good firewood all over the place.
 
It's not a common skill anymore and it makes sense if you think of how many people don't have access to practice it. I'll go you one better though. My wife and her friends rented a "cabin" for a weekend. Quotes is used because apparently the word "cabin" simply means rental house in a rural setting. Complete with wifi and all the modern conveniences. And neighbors. :rolleyes::)

So we all get there and everybody says "let's get a fire going and get this party started!" These were my wife's friends. I didn't really know them so I hung back and relaxed. It was about noon and we were inside in the heated "cabin." "Why are we starting a fire?" I ask myself. Oh yeah. It's a "cabin". Cabin equals fire. Duh. :) Nothing funnier than watching a bunch of thirty something's try and light four inch rounds of precut firewood by holding a bic under for several minutes. They eventually gave up because it wouldn't light. Obviously. When it got dark this other guy who showed up later got a bonfire going outside.

Pre cut, pre dried wood, indoors with an axe propped against the wood pile. It was pure rocket science to them and apparently way too complicated. I was entertained so yay me. :D
 
Start a fire with the dry wood. Place the wet wood nearby in positions that will allow plenty of airflow and enable it to dry out from the fire and wind. You know, just like if you were in wet conditions. Set the wet wood up as a fire reflector until it's dry enough to burn.
 
Shotgun said:
It's not a common skill anymore and it makes sense if you think of how many people don't have access to practice it. I'll go you one better though. My wife and her friends rented a "cabin" for a weekend. Quotes is used because apparently the word "cabin" simply means rental house in a rural setting. Complete with wifi and all the modern conveniences. And neighbors. :rolleyes::)

So we all get there and everybody says "let's get a fire going and get this party started!" These were my wife's friends. I didn't really know them so I hung back and relaxed. It was about noon and we were inside in the heated "cabin." "Why are we starting a fire?" I ask myself. Oh yeah. It's a "cabin". Cabin equals fire. Duh. :) Nothing funnier than watching a bunch of thirty something's try and light four inch rounds of precut firewood by holding a bic under for several minutes. They eventually gave up because it wouldn't light. Obviously. When it got dark this other guy who showed up later got a bonfire going outside.

Pre cut, pre dried wood, indoors with an axe propped against the wood pile. It was pure rocket science to them and apparently way too complicated. I was entertained so yay me. :D
Click to expand...

This seems to be everywhere now. Most see camping as rolling up in a house on wheels with prepackaged food and satellite tv. The parks also seem to be dedicating more space to glamping, outfitted yurts and cabins.
 
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