First Aid Help

Joined
Mar 31, 2006
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I guss this question is directed mostly toward our fourm members who are EMS/EMT Workers, or in the medical profession. I have been watching a product called Quick-Clot for the last few years and i see that it is now going to be released for general public use. Review's i have read from U.S. Marine corp's in Iraq seem to be mixed 50/50 love hate.do any of you guy or gal's have any personal experance with this product considering our love for guns knives and all things sharp would this be a good addition to an out door first aid kit or not.
 
I am not a first responder but I am in the 1st aid business; Quick-clot and other hemostatic products do work to stop intense bleeding. They are kind of like the last step before a tourniquet. Some of them need to be removed by a doctor if left on too long.
Some gripes I have heard about QC is that in the powder form it can be blown into the care-givers eys (by helos in Iraq); and IT BURNS. QC has tried to fix that by creating the sponge version. I am not an expert but I have heard from medics (at the SHOT show this year in Orlando) that if you leave QC on too long it needs to be removed surgically. That said I am sure it has saved many lives in Iraq and Afganistan it definitely works. You should see the sales videos.
Another similar product that is starting to get some positive feedback is Celox by Sam Medical. Works like QC without the burn and can be rinsed off with saline.

http://www.sammedical.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/SamSite.woa/wa/pages/Home
 
Mike, that's an odd review. Quikclot certainly isn't a flop although some changes have been made in delivery methods (impregnated gauze is often used). However, the powder is still used in certain occasions, such as when a gauze could not be placed deep in a wound. It is only intended for the most serious of wounds, basically when you would have used a tourniquet in the past because some severed vessel is causing a severe life-threatening blood loss. It's not for the vast majority of wounds in which the bleeding can be controlled with a pressure dressing. Unfortunately, if you don't have some decent emergency experience relatively minor bleeding may be mis-assessed as severe bleeding. Even trained medics and EMTs make that mistake. It is also more suited for scenarios when a trauma surgeon isn't a few blocks away and the cost of the additional tissue damage (due to heat injuries) are outweighed the benefit of rapid control of the hemorrhaging.
 
I agree with neomaz...This stuff is for a last resort only type thing...I think, probably the best bet for anybody looking to make a first aid kit ,would be to go out and take a first aid class, there are a lot of em out there, and even some that specify wilderness first aid, if you or anybody has had all this type of training than supply yourself with what you feel comfortable with. if not my advice, and it's an opinion only is to keep it simple a couple of gauze bads some bandaids, some kling, ace bandages, and maybe a few cold packs, and some bacitracin....Ive heard about some ems, and law enforcement agencies using quickclot, it does work, but for serious bleeds (arterial) where there is an imminent risk of death. I also here alot about people using crazyglue on wounds, and everytime I hear it it makes me wince....maybe it works, and as a career EMT my in depth medical knowledge is limited, but if I brought someone to hospital with a laceration that I applied crazy glue to, I would be fired on the spot..Like I said maybe these things work but there are numerous other interventions that are effective that should be performed first...Sorry didn't mean to go off on a rant...don't mean to sound opinionated either, sorry if I came off that way.
 
There are options to QC that don't have the exothermic reaction. For QC to work well, you need to have a dry wound, otherwise, it creates a ton of heat. I've heard credible stories about it cause 1st and 2nd degree burns in a few cases. Rare, and the damage is relatively minor, but if you can avoid it....

I'd rather go with one of the other products that doesn't have that issue, like Bleed-X or Celox. But most bleeding can be stopped by the basics. I've been tempted to add some Celox to my med kit when I've seen a decent price on it, but I've already got a lot of normal and bulk dressings.
 
I have to agree with Rescue Riley and Nemoaz, Quick clot is not that new, it has been around for a few years, but remains largley untried in the civillian world because like others said it in fact causes additional injury from burns, this may be an okay trade for a battlefield or a remote wilderness situation where help is days away, but for most instances, it violates the basic Ems Rule of "First Do No Harm",

I have used crazy glue in the past to close minor cuts, and it works as well as some of the medical, versions, but there is a risk of sealing in an infection that later requires surgery to re open.

But for firstaid, I advise keeping it simple,Bandaids, Gauze, tape and ace bandage and a few bandanas, will take care of a ramrkable number of injuries.

and like the others said Training, Training, Training, If you can volunteer somewhere, learn what a real live blood and gore situation looks like in a scenario where other trained professionals are around so you wont freak the first time you see it in the feild.
 
Thanks ,Nemoaz and RR this is the type info i'am looking for. I thought this quick clot might useful if you suffered an injury (axe or gun shot) while out in the woods with no one else present to apply direct pressure i thought this product might be usefull if there was a chance of loosing consciousness befor help arrived. emergancy responce time runs around 9 or 10 min.in this area, a little longer if your in the bush and they know where your at. as you know you can do alot of bleeding in ten minutes. Riley I agree with with you there is no substitute for training, mine is about 25 years out of date (USMC BASIC FIRST AID) as far as the crazy glue thing. i've read some of the same posts. sounds to me like what my neighbor who's from West Virginia call's hillbilly engineering
 
I'll echo what others have said about QuikClot, Celox, and the now unavailable to civilians Trauma-Dex, in that all of these are near last resort options that should be deployed when you have difficulty controlling a severe bleed. These powder and granule products are most effective when they can be applied directly to the source of the bleed. In a lot of severe situations, the source is an artery. Being able to dig in an effectively 'dry' the site of an arterial bleed is next to impossible, hence a drawback of the QuiKClit with it's exothermic reaction. But, exothermic reaction or not, the QuikClot is reported to stop the bleeding. i guess burns can be dealt with, but the QuikClot's exothermic reaction sort of puts the 'do no harm' thing in question. For me, at least.

Also, if you haven't checked out the different manufacturer's sites, do so. It is good to know how each different product works. Even though all the products in question do the same thing (accelerate clot formation), they all work a little differently.

While the powder and granule products are ideal for the most severe bleeds in the field, they do require some thought to their actual application. The granules and powders are loose and fast moving, and the foil-type pouch is not the most precise applicator. Care must be taken so you can hit your target. Things happen very quickly in the heat of the moment, so it is best to know these things ahead of time. If you can obtain a sample or an expired product, it wouldn't be a bad idea to crack it open to see what you are dealing with.

An alternative to the hemostatic powder/granule products is the impregnated gauze products. There are several out there on the market, and they work in the same way, but have the prodcut on a gauze sponge to facilitate easier application. The only hemostatic gauze I am familiar with is the ActCel. The ActCel isn't just applied to the gauze, it is the gauze. When applied to a wound, the gauze turns into a glucose gel that expands and creates pressure on the bleed, thus acellerating the clotting time. From the ActCel website:
ActCel website said:
...ActCel effectively cuts down on clotting time, helps stabilize new clots by accelerating the formation of fibrin cross-linkages and increases whole blood viscosity, thus promoting the aggregation of red blood cells.

Th ActCel is completely absorbable into the body. I saw a demonstration of the product, and to prove how harmless the product was the rep ate a 2x4 piece of the ActCel gauze. The ActCel reportedly does breakdown into a saline and glucose gel. I wouldn't substitute it for food on the trail, though...

I have a few, and now expired, Trauma-Dex products in various kits. Because it is sealed in an applicator, and then sealed in a foil pouch, I am confident that the product will still perform as expected if needed. However, I do intend to replace my Trauma-Dex with the Celox and a few ActCel sponges.

Let it be known that I, as an EMS professional, have not had an opportunity, nor a need, to deploy these products in an actual field situation. Again, I reitterate that I believe these products to be near last resort options; when direct pressure and elevation fail, but to be deployed if I need to resort to arterial pressure points for bleeding control. Although I sincerely hope I do not need to use these hemostatic agents, I like knowing that they are around. Same goes for my Epi-Pen/Twinject.

FWIW.
 
If ActCel breaks down into glucose, what does that mean for diabetics? In town, it's one thing, but off the blacktop, I'd rather not add add that insult to injury.
 
ironraven said:
If ActCel breaks down into glucose, what does that mean for diabetics? In town, it's one thing, but off the blacktop, I'd rather not add add that insult to injury.

Per the rep, the ActCel doesn't convert to any amount of glucose that would send someone into hyperglycemia. And plus it takes quite a while for the ActCel to be absorbed into the body. Also, if a person was bleeding bad enough to need the ActCel, they'd have other things to worry about other than their blood glucose level. Can't worry too much about one's blood glucose level if one doesn't have any blood left.
 
AS was mentioned. The vast majority of bleeders are stopped with direct pressure applied correctly. Pressure points can also be deployed.

Carotid, brachial, and femoral arteries are the ones in question (direct pressure will work depending on injury). Fortunately for most not in a theater of war they are VERY rare. % wise you are much better off spending the money on training and more usefull FA gear.

Your mileage may vary.

Skam
 
Thank you all for your reply's, i've learned alot. it nice to know in this day and age that there are people out there like you guys who share an intrest in some of the same things that i do who are willing to take the time to try and teach an old dog some new tricks THANK'S AGAIN
MIKE
 
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