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first design, please critique
- Thread starter Rsq
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I would just ty to add a little more shape to the handle.
-Xander
-Xander
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- Jul 13, 2009
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It looks like a 1 sided chisel grind.
I say, try doing it all from scratch yourself with a file instead of a grinder.
The biggest advantage of your design is you don't have to match one side to the other.
I say, try doing it all from scratch yourself with a file instead of a grinder.
The biggest advantage of your design is you don't have to match one side to the other.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2010
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- 893
I agree with Count on all points, especially the chisel grind, but I think you should attempt to do it by hand.
A couple of design comments - shape the handle a bit more, and don't drop it quite as much. Also, seeing as this is your first knife and you'll be doing everything by hand, I would probably not taper the tang, but if you did, start the tapering on the tang closer to the handle, and make it a more acute taper (down to about 1.5 - 2 mm at the end of the tang). Just my 2c.
A couple of design comments - shape the handle a bit more, and don't drop it quite as much. Also, seeing as this is your first knife and you'll be doing everything by hand, I would probably not taper the tang, but if you did, start the tapering on the tang closer to the handle, and make it a more acute taper (down to about 1.5 - 2 mm at the end of the tang). Just my 2c.
I would like it to be ground on both sides, I like symmetry
I didnt mean a tapered tang, i meant it to be somewhere in the 3-4mm range
What sort of shaping do you mean? I like the idea of a symmetrical handle that fits the hand the same in point up and point down grips
I didnt mean a tapered tang, i meant it to be somewhere in the 3-4mm range
What sort of shaping do you mean? I like the idea of a symmetrical handle that fits the hand the same in point up and point down grips
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Grinding on both sides will be fine on this knife design, but the blade shape leans more towards a chisel grind, IMO.
If you want the knife to be able to be comfortable tip up and tip down in the hand, you're going to have to compromise on comfort. If that is your objective, then the handle shape is ok, but I would still reduce the angle between the blade and the handle.
The reason I mentioned the tapered tang is because the blade width according to your sketch starts off at 3mm close to the tip, then goes up to 5mm half-way thought the blade, and then back down to 4mm at the ricasso, and then 3 to 4mm in the tang. If you're not planning on tapering it, why take it all the way out to 5mm half-way through the blade, and then back to 4mm for the ricasso/tang?
If you want the knife to be able to be comfortable tip up and tip down in the hand, you're going to have to compromise on comfort. If that is your objective, then the handle shape is ok, but I would still reduce the angle between the blade and the handle.
The reason I mentioned the tapered tang is because the blade width according to your sketch starts off at 3mm close to the tip, then goes up to 5mm half-way thought the blade, and then back down to 4mm at the ricasso, and then 3 to 4mm in the tang. If you're not planning on tapering it, why take it all the way out to 5mm half-way through the blade, and then back to 4mm for the ricasso/tang?
I want to taper the blade, flaring it out in the middle for two reasons. First is that i assume it would increase the strength in a part that would be expected to absorb a lot of the force of any use. If anything, the hilt should be get thicker towards the base of the blade, to increase overall strength at highest stress points. The attached scales would, i assume, buffer the tang and stress would dissipate towards the bottommost part.
The second reason for the taper is aesthetic: by maintaining a similar grind angle, the grind would rise higher in the center of the blade, contrasting a rounded grind pattern and overall form with the squared nature of the tanto-like blade.
I know that the somewhat extreme curve is unconventional, but it's sort of the point of the design. It combines the utility of a drop point, and to a lesser extent, a karambit with the blade geometry of a tanto. The whole thing is an attempt at reconciling three classic forms, without sacrificing much of any of their features that i find most appealing
The second reason for the taper is aesthetic: by maintaining a similar grind angle, the grind would rise higher in the center of the blade, contrasting a rounded grind pattern and overall form with the squared nature of the tanto-like blade.
I know that the somewhat extreme curve is unconventional, but it's sort of the point of the design. It combines the utility of a drop point, and to a lesser extent, a karambit with the blade geometry of a tanto. The whole thing is an attempt at reconciling three classic forms, without sacrificing much of any of their features that i find most appealing
Last edited:
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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Just a few tips from someone who makes these type blades:
Keep things simple. Forget curved grinds and recurved blades. Straight or upward curved cuts well every time.
Make the blade a symmetrical taper - called a distal taper - and have the tang all the same thickness. The stock for a blade this size should be about 3mm. The blade will snap much easier as drawn than a properly tapered blade. Also, 3mm at the ricasso ( where the handle starts) is plenty of meat for a 3.5" blade.
If you like the squared off tip, that is OK, but a more functional knife will have a curved blade.
Below are some concept sketches I did for a knife I am helping another newbie make. A slight modification will work for your design. They can all be make without the guard....which is how it ended up. They are a little faint, but you can see the idea.
Keep things simple. Forget curved grinds and recurved blades. Straight or upward curved cuts well every time.
Make the blade a symmetrical taper - called a distal taper - and have the tang all the same thickness. The stock for a blade this size should be about 3mm. The blade will snap much easier as drawn than a properly tapered blade. Also, 3mm at the ricasso ( where the handle starts) is plenty of meat for a 3.5" blade.
If you like the squared off tip, that is OK, but a more functional knife will have a curved blade.
Below are some concept sketches I did for a knife I am helping another newbie make. A slight modification will work for your design. They can all be make without the guard....which is how it ended up. They are a little faint, but you can see the idea.
Attachments
Quote: “I want to taper the blade, flaring it out in the middle for two reasons. First is that i assume it would increase the strength in a part that would be expected to absorb a lot of the force of any use. If anything, the hilt should be get thicker towards the base of the blade, to increase overall strength at highest stress points. The attached scales would, i assume, buffer the tang and stress would dissipate towards the bottommost part.”
You seem to have put a lot of thought into making sure the blade is strong. I suggest you look at the ricasso area. If I see correctly there is a small notch on the top, a good place for a crack to start. Even if the notch is rounded there are also the Swiss cheese holes in the handle/tang. Yea, they are to lighten the handle and move the balance point forward, but at the cost of weakening the tang. I think I would remove the holes in the first 1/3 of the tang right after the ricasso, and see about making more holes farther back in the tang where it is less likely to be stressed.
Quote: “I would like it to be ground on both sides, I like symmetry.”
I agree.
Quote: “I like the idea of a symmetrical handle that fits the hand the same in point up and point down grips.”
Like a dagger? I’m not sure that you’ve achieved that. Have you cut a full size template of it out of cardboard to hold in your hand and see if it actually works the way you want it to?
Good luck,
- Paul Meske
You seem to have put a lot of thought into making sure the blade is strong. I suggest you look at the ricasso area. If I see correctly there is a small notch on the top, a good place for a crack to start. Even if the notch is rounded there are also the Swiss cheese holes in the handle/tang. Yea, they are to lighten the handle and move the balance point forward, but at the cost of weakening the tang. I think I would remove the holes in the first 1/3 of the tang right after the ricasso, and see about making more holes farther back in the tang where it is less likely to be stressed.
Quote: “I would like it to be ground on both sides, I like symmetry.”
I agree.
Quote: “I like the idea of a symmetrical handle that fits the hand the same in point up and point down grips.”
Like a dagger? I’m not sure that you’ve achieved that. Have you cut a full size template of it out of cardboard to hold in your hand and see if it actually works the way you want it to?
Good luck,
- Paul Meske
a little update
I think I'll just build the grip into the wood I use to dress it. I took most of the advice, I modified the ricasso, removed the holes closer to the blade, removed the taper on the tang, and thinned the blade out. I don't really want to change the angle of the blade to the handle though, that is what I like most about the design
S.Grosvenor
Fulltime KnifeMaker
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what helps me, I make one out of cardboard first, see how it feels go from there.
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^^^ Agreed - I usually grind one out of a piece of wood that is the same thickness as the blade, and wrap the handle with paracord to give it some thickness so that I can feel it out.
I like the design much better now that you have made the adjustments. Are you still determined to have someone else profile and grind it out for you?
I like the design much better now that you have made the adjustments. Are you still determined to have someone else profile and grind it out for you?
Im not sure
How difficult is it to grind annealed steal? I have files that ive used for woodworking, would they work for metal? I guess buying a drill isnt a big deal, i'll need one anyway
At this point, if steel isnt that hard to file, the idea of doing the whole thing myself is growing on me. I came across alabama damascus, which seems to be of good quality and isnt expensive
How difficult is it to grind annealed steal? I have files that ive used for woodworking, would they work for metal? I guess buying a drill isnt a big deal, i'll need one anyway
At this point, if steel isnt that hard to file, the idea of doing the whole thing myself is growing on me. I came across alabama damascus, which seems to be of good quality and isnt expensive