First kitchen blades. Ideas very welcome

S

skillgannon

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The wa handle is the only completed one. The black handled one was ground out of a larger blade that I didn't like. The handle is only loose pinned. I want to build more soon. Any points for style or function would be very appreciated. Also if there are any good threads or reference material that you guys know of I would love to study it. My budget has not allowed me to buy high end kitchen knifes so I'm trying to base the design from pics.
 
For the wa handle, I think it looks better when the blade is in from the handle an even amount on both the edge and spine sides.
 
Reverse the blade profile and go "tip down." A "tip up" profile would be more suitable for a filet or paring knife.
 
The blade was a 6" chef but I burned it right as I was doing the last trizac. So I just ground it back to something usable.It is a size that my wife tends to use.

Is the profile on the chef ok or should I make some changes before I i put the handle on?
 
One problem that many have with kitchen knives, including very skilled and experienced knife makers. is that the tend to apply the designs and techniques used to produce other types of knives to kitchen knives and often, that just doesn't work. You sometimes end up with "kitchen" knives that more resemble something that Jim Bowie would have had with him at the sand bar. One thing that i notice is the a lot of us have been told that the point of a knife should be in line with the center of front of the handle or perhaps the "axis of thrust" based on the handle shape if it is curvy. In the case of a chef knife, I would argue that the point should be in line with the center of the blade at the heel and no higher. Once you get that, you decide what shape you want to use, be it say a fairly symmetrical long spear shape with nice sexy curves like say a Kramer, a more flat belly shape like a typical Gyuto or an old Sabatier or even one with the tip maybe a tiny bit higher like the typical old school Henckels.
 
jdm61 said:
One problem that many have with kitchen knives, including very skilled and experienced knife makers. is that the tend to apply the designs and techniques used to produce other types of knives to kitchen knives and often, that just doesn't work. You sometimes end up with "kitchen" knives that more resemble something that Jim Bowie would have had with him at the sand bar. One thing that i notice is the a lot of us have been told that the point of a knife should be in line with the center of front of the handle or perhaps the "axis of thrust" based on the handle shape if it is curvy. In the case of a chef knife, I would argue that the point should be in line with the center of the blade at the heel and no higher. Once you get that, you decide what shape you want to use, be it say a fairly symmetrical long spear shape with nice sexy curves like say a Kramer, a more flat belly shape like a typical Gyuto or an old Sabatier or even one with the tip maybe a tiny bit higher like the typical old school Henckels.
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I think I understand what you are saying. I have a OK Shun nock off set from Caffalon and they have been the best knifes i have had so far. It was my understanding that the tall heal and high handle were for clearance. Do you have any good examples of how to bring it all together?
 
Make a few belly profiles and see how little belly is needed for efficient rocking, and what belly profile works for push cuts. People lose sight of the importance of functionality over appearance. The average user can make almost anything work, but someone in a kitchen cutting for hours on end needs the most efficient tool he can get. Your hand and arm should be in neutral positions using the knife.
 
That is pretty.

What about grinds. I keep reading about a zero edge as well as convex grinds. It seems like I have a lot of work to do to understand what is needed for top performance. I like to cook so I'm hoping to make the knifes that I can't buy. Or at least the wife isn t ok with me buying.
 
I took that one down to about .005 for the most part and .007-.008 at the heel. I leave the heel with a little more beef on my knives, but I have to double check when I sharpen to make sure the heel gets done like the rest of the edge.
 
Edge profile is something you have to study, and you have to know what you personally like (or your target audience).
I think yours is fine as is, but it is more western. That's a personal preference item. Some like it, some want more traditional Japanese, some are in between...

In general, it's really not too far off.
As far as fit, your choil could be improved. Start it off in line with the handle line roughly, parallel with the top of the blade. Then bring it around more sharply to the heel. Almost a right angle.
Make that turn as long as you want. I've done a serious right angle, all they way to a .5 inch radius turn and either can look ok. The radius is probably more comfortable, but either works if done right.
Yours is immediately starting to drop to the heal. Not a great look in my mind.
If you are good on the grinder, and careful, you can do this without the small wheel. Just clean it up by hand.
For the spine, the easiest thing to make that right is run it vertical on the platen until it is straight as an arrow. Then using a 220 (slowly) or 400 grit, rock it side to side to round it.
The shoulders should not extend above or below the handle.
Three easy things that will improve the look of your knife tremendously.... FWIW
 
jdm61 said:
I took that one down to about .005 for the most part and .007-.008 at the heel. I leave the heel with a little more beef on my knives, but I have to double check when I sharpen to make sure the heel gets done like the rest of the edge.
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I do the same thing on mine. When they are so thin, it just doesn't seem right to leave that heel thin. It will be wrecked.
 
How does it feel in your hand? do you have grip choices when you use it? how is the balance? how does it work for you when slicing or dicing in the kitchen? how does the handle FEEL, heck with wa or western or eastern. If you work at it, the handle will seem to disappear in your hand. The joy of making a kitchen knife is making one that works well for YOU, heck with 'it looks too pointy' or 'point is in wrong direction'.
if it is a kitchen knife used on proper cutting board I prefer the edge .0025 or less over the whole blade. what is the thickness 1/4" and 1/2" above the edge? for a good kitchen slicer I like it to be 0.020" at 1/4" and 0.030" at 1/2" for best performance. I also prefer hardness to be at least Rc62, Rc64-65 is even better.
 
skillgannon said:
My budget has not allowed me to buy high end kitchen knifes so I'm trying to base the design from pics.
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Murray Carter has a knife design book with kitchen knife patterns available for your use. That might be a worthy investment for you.

regards
 
scott.livesey said:
How does it feel in your hand? do you have grip choices when you use it? how is the balance? how does it work for you when slicing or dicing in the kitchen? how does the handle FEEL, heck with wa or western or eastern. If you work at it, the handle will seem to disappear in your hand. The joy of making a kitchen knife is making one that works well for YOU, heck with 'it looks too pointy' or 'point is in wrong direction'.
if it is a kitchen knife used on proper cutting board I prefer the edge .0025 or less over the whole blade. what is the thickness 1/4" and 1/2" above the edge? for a good kitchen slicer I like it to be 0.020" at 1/4" and 0.030" at 1/2" for best performance. I also prefer hardness to be at least Rc62, Rc64-65 is even better.
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For the blades where I did an S grind, I used a rather tall convex for the edge, like 3/8 high. The S grind ended up being a double flat grind, first one taking the entire bevel from spine thickness down to like 1mm at the edge and the second coming under that with the hollow starting right under the "shinogi" formed where the second flat meets first flat and the convex edge starting right below the bottom of the hollow. The sequence was first flat, second flat, rough convex of the edge, hollow, blend and do initial hand sanding of everything with EDM stones and paper, set the edge and clean up with paper, final hand sand everything nice and slick, then final sharpening.
On a number of S ground knives that I have seen, you can see the hollow in the pictures. On mine, you really couldn't and had to use the old business card trick to see the details of the grind.
This suji was an S grind.
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