First knife -- handle question

MeDoctor

MeDoctor

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Dec 8, 2003
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I'm almost done with my first knife (a 5" cleaver from 01 tool steel), all that remains is the handle, some finish sanding, and sharpening. Sunday night I ordered some black micarta, epoxy, blind bolts, and cutler's rivets from K&G. Due to a goof on my part while roughing out the initial pattern the tang will have to be hidden, since it's too narrow to cut the scales the same width and still have a meaty enough handle. Once my micarta arrives I plan to cut a relief into both of the scales with an end mill and glue them together around the tang with epoxy. This leaves me with 2 questions:



1 - Is epoxy alone strong enough to hold without bolts or rivets? The end of the tang is shaped with a triangular projection, so there should be no danger of sliding out of the handle if the tang fails to adhere fully to the scales. (If my description is inadequate I can post a photo when I get home tonight.)



2 - The blade is hardened to 59 Rc. Will I need to torch the tang if I need to drill it for bolts or rivets? Also, would it be a good idea to anneal the tang and upper half of the cleaver to soften the shock that's transmitted to the user?



Shalom,

Mark
 
1) Drill some holes in the tang and rough up or drill partial holes in the scales, and the epoxy should hold fine. My first knife has no pins and it's holding up well.

2) You'll need to soften the tang to drill it, but I think you're just using the wrong word rather then the wrong idea... "annealing" is heating it up quite hot and burying it in ashes or vermiculite or other stuff and letting it cool over time. That would ruin your hardening and temper. What you want to do is draw the temper on the tang, and since it's a chopper, the spine is a good idea too. Heat it with a torch until it's blue, but be careful the color doesn't flow to the edge or else it'll ruin it and you'll need to reharden.
 
Thanks for the input. Another question: can the blue color be sanded out of the spine? (I don't care about the tang, since it'll be hidden.)

Shalom,
Mark
 
Yup, temper coloring is one of the weakest (though prettiest in my opinion) finishes for a knife, you'll probably be able to get it off with a plastic dish scrubby, don't even need to sand.
 
I have had no luck so far with epoxy bonding to micarta. Brownell's glass bedding compound may but I have not yet tried it with micarta. Pins would be a good idea. Yes, you should heat the tang for drilling. Sink the blade well and selectively heat the tang where you want to drill. Next time you will know to drill all holes first but you can do it with this one if you don't soften the cutting edge by heating the tang.

RL
 
to be safe on a chopper I'd go with cutler's rivets or bolts.
if you have a carbide bit you can use that but I'd draw it back

"to soften the shock that's transmitted to the user",,,
I don't think that will help you there..
 
Thanks guys. If I keep putting divots in the damned thing with the edge of the belt there won't be enough knife left to bother putting a handle on.

Shalom,
Mark
 
Don't feel bad about that and don't allow it to discourage you either. You have lost nothing and gained good experience. If you are not satisfied with the grind just chuck it and put the experience into a new blank. That is what I did with my first knife grind. I was low because of all the hours but those hours showed back up in my second grind. Patience and never ending determination will gain rewards far beyond your aggrivation at this time.

You will just fine.

RL
 
rlinger said:
Don't feel bad about that and don't allow it to discourage you either... RL
Click to expand...

Thanks for the much-needed ecouragement. Somehow I put a deep enough divot in it with an A45 Trizact belt that I went all the way back to a 4x36 60 grit Norzon, then I fumbled the blade while grinding with the Norzon belt and put a huge gouge in it near the cutting edge. "Fortunately" the blade is a flat grind with a full convex edge -- the edge is now about 1/4" closer to the spine after grinding the gouge out on a slack belt. Naturally I managed to put more divots in it again with the A45 belt... Oh, poop!

Shalom,
Mark
 
To save the temper of the cutting edge you could keep it in water while heating the back and tang to the blue color.
 
Keeping the edge in water had occured to me, I just hadn't gotten around to asking yet. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

Shalom,
Mark
 
I have done quite a few handles like that. call them mortised handles. You could also use a spacer the same thickness as your tang. I generally use 1 loveless style bolt through the metal.With micarta I rough up the glueing surface and use 5 min epoxy.Has more adhesion than some others.
Take Care
TJ
 
On a mortised handle like that I use pins piened(swelled heads) or loveless bolts. For strength you can't beat the loveless bolts, when it's put together right it's not coming apart.

I've had good luck bonding mycarta with Acureglass, I've used it a couple time to bond mycarta pins through mycarta bolsters. Just make sure the scales are roughed up with sand paper and cleaned with acetone for a good bond. I would still use a couple of loveless bolts for added strength, due to a couple bad experiances before I knew what I was doing I don't trust epoxy all that much.
 
Been workin' on the handle for a couple of days now. I burned up half a dozen or more HS drill bits trying to drill the tang after heating it with a torch. I finally went out this morning and picked up some cobalt bits from the local Ace Hardware dealer. What a difference!

I'll be glad when this sucker is done -- and I suspect my wife will be thrilled beyond words. This project has tested my patience beyond the breaking point and exposed some areas in my character that are still in need of some serious work.

Thanks to all for your help and advice.

Shalom,
Mark
 
Too late for you now, though. You're hooked, and will be making many more knives. :)
 
Danbo said:
Too late for you now, though. You're hooked, and will be making many more knives. :)
Click to expand...
Probably true -- perhaps the next few should be made out of balsa wood.
 
My luck with Micarta and Brownell's Acraglas has been very good, but with a chopping tool, I would add a couple of rivets.
 
I went with a pair stainless blind bolts. I'm now in the final shaping and buffing stages. Based on the advice given here and info gleaned from searching other threads, I'll drill a couple of extra holes in the tang, rough up the mating surfaces of the scales a bit, then mix my 5 minute epoxy with some black dye and put it all together. It just dawned on me while writing this that there's no point in doing any more finish sanding or buffing until it's put together, since I'll have to grind the blind bolts flush...

Shalom,
Mark
 
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