First Project, need some info

[Ultimate]

Hi guys. I am undertaking my first knife making project via stock removal and am in need of some information.

I have highlighted my main questions in red, just to make them clear.

For what it's worth, the knife is remnant of a Fallkniven F1, except my handle is narrower and not as rectangular as the Fallkniven's. (I like simple designs) The blade is ~3.75'' and the handle is 4.875". I have a cardboard cut out including handle scales. Besides just being my first knife, I plan on using it. Skinning during deer season/food prep/maybe even some camping tasks.

I have all the equipment necessary both at home and my school to complete this project. I am also lucky enough to have extensive heat treating/metal working facilities at my school, so all the heat treating will be done to a fairly accurate degree.

Keeping those things in mind, we arrive at my first question: Should I use stainless or a high carbon steel? Even though the machinery is available to me, I would like to make this knife by hand. I think I should use a carbon steel (1084/1080/etc.) but I am also concerned about rust resistance. I do take care of my knives but I do not baby them. I also plan to make a leather sheath for this knife and leather does not go well with carbon steel unless you keep the steel well oiled/protected.

Carbon or stainless, that is the dilemma. If I go carbon, I was thinking about forcing a patina to add some protection to the blade. Do you think this would work well?

Also, I was thinking about using removable handles (screw) so that I can experiment with different handle materials. If I do that and use a carbon blade, there will be no epoxy/filler to offer added protection between the handle and blade. Is that correct?

Lastly, does anyone have a source of isothermal transformation diagrams for a multitude of steels? I have been able to find one or two here and there but a nice comprehensive pdf or website would be great (not because I plan on making 500 knives with different blade steel, but because I am simply interested in them due my VERY LIGHT education in metallurgy)

Any help/info/insight is greatly appreciated.

 

[scout_77]

I favor things like o1, but that's me.

As for forced patina, I am a big fan of mustard patinas, I do 3 layers, a light sand (2000 grit) and 2 to 3 more, all random drops. Comes out well, and helps some.

As for the handles coming off, you could try greasing under them, like a "supper lube", or (let me state up front I haven't tried this) some kind of elemr's glue that is not to strong and you could just take out the screws and tap the handles off.

 

[Ultimate]

I favor things like o1, but that's me.

As for forced patina, I am a big fan of mustard patinas, I do 3 layers, a light sand (2000 grit) and 2 to 3 more, all random drops. Comes out well, and helps some.

As for the handles coming off, you could try greasing under them, like a "supper lube", or (let me state up front I haven't tried this) some kind of elemr's glue that is not to strong and you could just take out the screws and tap the handles off.

Do you think the O1 would hold up fine in a leather sheath with a mustard/grapefruit patina? Of course it would still be oiled from time to time.

 

[lonepine]

I suggest that you NOT try to make the knife of your dreams the first time around. In my opinion you would be better served by making a "basic" knife so that you are not distracted by things that don't really make a knife more of a knife. I guess this would depend upon your experience in metal work and building stuff in general.

You seem to be talking yourself into stainless steel so go with that thought. I don't think a patina will provide the level of rust resistance you ultimately want. The challenge will be the heat treatment, whether your facilities are adequate for the task.

Please take the time to fill out your profile. You will get better response if we have a better sense of who you are.

Good luck.

- Paul Meske, Wisconsin
Alias LonePine

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

I've only been making knives for a short time, but here is my two cents. Another thing is, this is just what I use, they are both medium speed oil quenching and my kiln can reach the temperatures to treat them.

I like carbon steels, O1 and 5160. Of the two the 01 is much easier to work with, it is precision ground and you can get it in just about any size you want. You can use it for just about anything but maybe a dive knife. I like the properties of 5160 for the choppers and larger knives I make. They both take a bit of maintainence as far as rust goes, I'm having good luck with Ballistol so far.

One thing to keep in mind about stainless is that some of it is difficult to finish after heat treat, especially by hand. S-30v is one that comes to mind. This is just what I have read, I have never worked with stainless.

I have decided to stick to O1 and 5160, you have to spend a lot of time researching how to treat each steel so it is nice to stick to one or two types.

 

[Ultimate]

I suggest that you NOT try to make the knife of your dreams the first time around. In my opinion you would be better served by making a "basic" knife so that you are not distracted by things that don't really make a knife more of a knife. I guess this would depend upon your experience in metal work and building stuff in general.

You seem to be talking yourself into stainless steel so go with that thought. I don't think a patina will provide the level of rust resistance you ultimately want. The challenge will be the heat treatment, whether your facilities are adequate for the task.

Please take the time to fill out your profile. You will get better response if we have a better sense of who you are.

Good luck.

- Paul Meske, Wisconsin
Alias LonePine

I know what you mean. I have a tendency to want to go into great detail/depth even if I've never tried it before. Taking it slow is probably the best approach here.

The reason why I lean away from stainless though, is because of what Daniel said below:

One thing to keep in mind about stainless is that some of it is difficult to finish after heat treat, especially by hand. S-30v is one that comes to mind. This is just what I have read, I have never worked with stainless.

It just seems like a high carbon steel is easier to work with and treat than stainless, for a first-timer anyway.

Thanks for your responses.

P.S. still looking for those TTT diagrams

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

The TTT diagrams are in most good metallurgy books. The ASM, "Heat Treaters Guide - Practices and Procedures for Irons and Steels" is the standard. If your school have a good metallurgy and/or engineering program, it is likely that the library has several copies. The bookstore may have a used one for sale.

 

[Ultimate]

The TTT diagrams are in most good metallurgy books. The ASM, "Heat Treaters Guide - Practices and Procedures for Irons and Steels" is the standard. If your school have a good metallurgy and/or engineering program, it is likely that the library has several copies. The bookstore may have a used one for sale.

I realized this right after I posted and checked our library website. Apparently, there are two copies that are both taken out and not due back until after I leave for the summer. I will speak with some of my professors who might have a copy or know of another source. Thanks for the help.

 

[Frank Niro]

Is the climate dry or very damp where you live? I believe for at least the first time round the carbon steal might be more forgiving. It can make an excellent cutting tool in any size you preffer. Frsank

 

[Ultimate]

Is the climate dry or very damp where you live? I believe for at least the first time round the carbon steal might be more forgiving. It can make an excellent cutting tool in any size you preffer. Frsank

It is moderate to very humid.

 

[David Metzger]

Well if you aren't using power equipment, What are you considering for heat treat options and budget? 1075 1080 1084fg is most likely your answer.

David