first sad attempt using new smith's diamond tri hone system

[mykem]

Okay, let me have it.

Please take a look at these pics and tell me what, BESIDES EVERYTHING, that needs improvement and how to make the improvements. I'm hoping some of you folks will look and say, "Aha! Here's where you're going wrong."

The blade is my beat up work knife, vg10 endura 4.

So far i've learned angle consistency is of primary importance and keeping a consitent angle is a female dog.

Also, the tip and heel of the blade are mothers.

Now, kick my butt.

Thanks

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[cchu518]

This is solely just me but this endura is really well used. The biggest test is if it cuts well for you. If it does your good.

If it were my knife, I would whip out the Norton crystolon course and go to work recreating the edge by thinning out the bevel.

Knocking off the shoulders with the course Norton should get you back to the original edge geometry. I only say Norton since you have the trihone but the Norton is really aggressive and will take metal off an edge way faster than anything else I've ever used.

 

[Jason B.]

The Endura with wave is a thick beast, I typically regrind them thinner and then sharpen. Yours is in need of exactly that.

If you didn't want to do that then I would probably recommend using a convex method to sharpen. Convex edges tend to work very well with thicker blades.

 

[cchu518]

^ that would have been my second choice! Sandpaper'd convexed edge making the edge more like a fixed blades!

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

The recurve at the heel from repeated previous sharpening needs to be straightened. Unless you plan to sharpen the inner curve using rods.

A well used knife indeed, at this stage perhaps a convex is better.
Unless, you regrind the whole primary, including straightening the heel, then add the secondary bevel.

I'd suggest looking at some sample of regrind for ideas. Remember, regrind with your Smith coarsest stone by hand still take some time.
I did this over 2 weekends with lots of breaks in between. That wasn't even a regrind, it's just decreasing the secondary bevel. The regrind will remove more material = take longer.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1304098-That-Endura?p=15406055#post15406055
(Check the SG one, the bevel is wider)

 

[mykem]

The recurve at the heel from repeated previous sharpening needs to be straightened. Unless you plan to sharpen the inner curve using rods.

A well used knife indeed, at this stage perhaps a convex is better.
Unless, you regrind the whole primary, including straightening the heel, then add the secondary bevel.

I'd suggest looking at some sample of regrind for ideas. Remember, regrind with your Smith coarsest stone by hand still take some time.
I did this over 2 weekends with lots of breaks in between. That wasn't even a regrind, it's just decreasing the secondary bevel. The regrind will remove more material = take longer.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1304098-That-Endura?p=15406055#post15406055
(Check the SG one, the bevel is wider)

Fellas,

I have no doubt that at this stage of the endura's life, convex is the way to go. And i'm just starting out and i do need the practice. I could put in the hours and hours and hours involved, but i don't think i could get it right.

Here's what i envision happening. Remember the guy who has a wobbly table?

He's real sick of it and decides to fix it.

He eyeballs things and decides to take a little off the three longer legs trying to match them up to that shortest one.

By the time he's done, he ends up putting that table in front of his favorite chair because all that's left of it is a wobbly foot rest.

I think if i tried to do it myself, i'd end up with a toothpick. And i don't mean a toothpick style knife. I mean something i could pick my teeth with.

Maybe i should take it to a shop and ask if they can put a convex edge on it at not too large of a cost and if they can, i can just just try to maintain the new edge without fouling it up.

It's still sharp the way it is, sharp enough to slice paper anyway until it gets down near the heel, then it starts tearing. It's ugly as hell but it works.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

You can use a medium ceramic rod to sharpen the recurve. All in all, still a usable and serviceable knife!

Sending it to Big Chris, Jason or Josh might be the solution. Very sure either of them can revive it to be better than new!

However this knife doesn't seem to have high sentimental value to you. My suggestion if it's my knife: get a cheap SiC stone & regrind . I might try FFG it like this:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/612185-ZDP-189-Endura-4-opinion
As a project, taking my time & learning along the way. I'd remove the recurve using diamond file, creating a sharpening notch. The rest (after a full conversion is done) will be easily maintained on day to day.

Good luck!

 

[mykem]

You can use a medium ceramic rod to sharpen the recurve. All in all, still a usable and serviceable knife!

Sending it to Big Chris, Jason or Josh might be the solution. Very sure either of them can revive it to be better than new!

However this knife doesn't seem to have high sentimental value to you. My suggestion if it's my knife: get a cheap SiC stone & rebevel. I might try FFG it like this:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/612185-ZDP-189-Endura-4-opinion
As a project, taking my time & learning along the way. I'd remove the recurve using diamond file, creating a sharpening notch. The rest (after a full conversion is done) will be easily maintained on day to day.

Good luck!

Chris,

Have you ever owned an ugly dog but liked having it around? That's me and that knife. I bought it right after spyderco waved the endura, about 10 years ago. I've carried and used it ever since. If it's not on me, i'm swimming, showering or one way or another, reclining.

I don't know any of the guys you mentioned to ask about fixing it. But i figure to do it right it would take a long time and be pretty costly.

I don't think a full flat flat could handle what that knife goes through. As you and others have suggested, convex is probably what it needs at this point.

 

[mykem]

I was just thinking. I've never done it but i know for $5 (return shipping cost) spyderco sharpens, well, spydercos.

I just looked it up. It said they will do a re-grind for $20. I wonder if they would/could restore it to that big fat saber grind it came with? I wonder how much steel i'd lose if they did it?

I'm seriously considering sending it in to them except for two things.

I'm afraid they might just send my knife to the Spyderco Home for Abused Knives and i'd never see it again.

I also fear they'd put me on some kind of "Never Sell This Guy Another Spyderco" list.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

I can appreciate old dog analogy. :thumbup:

About Spyderco: I don't think they'd do that if you discuss with them prior to sending it. If you are in US, give them a call, ask to speak to Charlynn.
Or send them email (customer service). Charlynn is very good.
Spyderco makes knives to be used. They'll appreciate your using the knives.

Alternately, contact the resident sharpeners I mentioned & ask about the service & fee.

 

[cchu518]

If it's the direction you go I can tell you that the fellas on the forum will do a sick regrind for you for around $40 to $80 ball park. I'm about to get something done with a boker mini kwaiken but I havn't gotten around to it. They will complete it with a satin finish too.

PS. I've reprofiled broken tips of delicas twice it's not impossible with a course stone and kinda fun!

 

[Jason B.]

I don't know any of the guys you mentioned to ask about fixing it. But i figure to do it right it would take a long time and be pretty costly.

I don't think a full flat flat could handle what that knife goes through. As you and others have suggested, convex is probably what it needs at this point.

I'm one of the guys mentioned, we offer sharpening services to Bladeforums members.

Josh of Razor Edge Knives is the man when it comes to regrinds and custom work, hell, I'm even one of his customers.


I am the hand sharpening guru, I use fancy waterstones and traditional methods for sharpening and repair. I'm one of my own customers too

Here is my Endura Wave, reground to .012 behind the sharpened bevel. With the overly thick knife trend some might think this is too thin but in reality it's just as strong if not stronger than before. Even in its dullest moments after scrapping over concrete I need no lower than my 1000 grit stone to bring this edge back. When the grind is thin there is not a lot of work that needs to be done, when the grind is thick you are always fighting geometry.

 

[bgentry]

Here is my Endura Wave, reground to .012 behind the sharpened bevel.

Is that your work, or Josh's ?

Brian.

 

[jpm2]

If you send it to someone else to do the work, doesn't that contradict your original intent of learning freehand? This is the perfect opportunity as I see it.

There's no hurry on the profiling, no need to do it all at once, it's gonna take a long time with the smiths anyway. Do a little at a time, when you feel like it, while keeping it sharp and useable. It'll be good practice, and you'll learn a lot about free handing while doing so.

If you want the job to go 50x faster, get the norton cystolon, as has been suggested numerous times.

 

[exracr]

Don't give up so fast..... Trust me, my first 4-5 knives were a drastically fast learning experience. It's like learning to riding a bike fyi. Hell, I just showed my Brother a $35 Walmart knife here 10 minutes ago...He ran it thru one of them cardboard magazine fliers..... He just looked at me like then said, "You could take your whole finger off in one swipe!"

Stay with it, and you'll learn a trade that you'll have for a lifetime!

I seriously just got a leather strop with green diamond paste, and it is exactly what I needed to get that last finishing step. I could get my knives sharp.... but not that spyderco new hair popping sharp- I can now!!! Cost $22+ shipping ... Hell I'm probably going to order the larger one since this smaller one works so amazing this week!

 

[cchu518]

I'm one of the guys mentioned, we offer sharpening services to Bladeforums members.

Josh of Razor Edge Knives is the man when it comes to regrinds and custom work, hell, I'm even one of his customers.


I am the hand sharpening guru, I use fancy waterstones and traditional methods for sharpening and repair. I'm one of my own customers too

Here is my Endura Wave, reground to .012 behind the sharpened bevel. With the overly thick knife trend some might think this is too thin but in reality it's just as strong if not stronger than before. Even in its dullest moments after scrapping over concrete I need no lower than my 1000 grit stone to bring this edge back. When the grind is thin there is not a lot of work that needs to be done, when the grind is thick you are always fighting geometry.

^ that's nice!

 

[Jason B.]

Is that your work, or Josh's ?

Brian.

It's mine.

I do alright with smaller knives that have good lines to begin with. I offer it when the knife is in need of more than a thinned out edge bevel but on more complex grinds and larger knives I send them over to Josh.

 

[mykem]

If you want the job to go 50x faster, get the norton cystolon, as has been suggested numerous times.

True, a" Norton Crystolon" stone has been suggested numerous times as being a much more useful stone in terms of getting the rather fat endura blade where i want it initially. Further refinement could come later with a higher grit stone, i guess.

Now, would someone be kind enough to mention which model Norton Crystolon stone might be best suited to the job? I see a lot of different Norton Crystolon stones online; singles and doubles with different grits and so on.

To me, saying "get a Norton Crystolon" is like telling a guy looking for a car to, "Buy a Ford."

I'd like to see something that points me to the right Norton stone for the job. The exact name, the size and a model number would be nice. Even if there are different opinions on which specific stone, this would help narrow it down.

It gets even more confusing because i think different websites describe the same damn stones differently. For example some sites call Norton stones "stones," and other sites call what appear to be identical stones "bench tools."

Remember boys, i'm as green as grass with this stuff. Greener even.

Thank you.

 

[jc57]

I use the Norton JB8, Norton Part No. 61463685455. 8" X 2" X 1". Combo stone, coarse and fine sides. Paid $20.99 for mine from an on-line vendor. There are other sizes and you can get individual grit stones. Choice is up to you.

 

[mykem]

I use the Norton JB8, Norton Part No. 61463685455. 8" X 2" X 1". Combo stone, coarse and fine sides. Paid $20.99 for mine from an on-line vendor. There are other sizes and you can get individual grit stones. Choice is up to you.

Thanks jc, that's kind of specific designation is exactly what i'm looking for.

As far as choice, remember, i'm new at this and i'm like shooting in the dark, hell, make that like a blind man shooting in the dsrk.