First time making knife- need advice!

A

andrew132

Joined
May 4, 2011
Messages
136
Hello, im going to be trying to make my first knife :). Im 15 and my dad will be making it with me (he has no experience with knife making either).

Here are the two designs that I drew on some aluminum, which I will cut out and use as a template. Please tell me what you think about the designs and if you have any recommendations about it.

I dont know if this is how im supposed to do this, and I hope that im not breaking any rules, but this is the link to my pictures

http://s1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee390/andrewhart132/

Also, one quick other question, im planning on making the knives out of 4130 chromoly steel, its really the best that I have.. Im just wondering if anyone has any experience using that metal with knives

Thanks a lot!
 
added the photos here for you....

IMG_0705.jpg

IMG_0701.jpg
 
Andrew,

4130 is not a good steel to make a knife from it does not have enough carbon to harden properly. It will work for practice but I would recommend 5160 or 1084. I have some 5160 I will gladly mail you if you tell me how long you need and give me an address. Make sure it is OK with your parents first please.
 
Welcome, pretty cool that you and your dad will be doing this project together =)

First one... I'd say round out the pommel (end of the knife) instead of just having it squared off. The second one I'm not sure but the handle is the only thing i really would rework a bit, maybe add some curve to it? That will help asthetics and comfort when you hold it.

Soon someone will chime in with the standard response to knifemakers. There is a load of info in there, and both you and your dad should read a lot of it.
 
A C Richards said:
Andrew,

4130 is not a good steel to make a knife from it does not have enough carbon to harden properly. It will work for practice but I would recommend 5160 or 1084. I have some 5160 I will gladly mail you if you tell me how long you need and give me an address. Make sure it is OK with your parents first please.
Click to expand...

Andrew, Take AC up on his offer if ok with your dad. If you are going to put in the time and effort, it would be nice to have a blade you can use. Cut out the aluminum template and see how it feels in your hand, think about the steps in your mind. Have you read the "Stickies" in this forum about Newbie knife making?
 
Ya, so here it is as predicted.


In looking at your drawings-

I would suggest cutting your templates out of cardboard or wood first.

Paint stir sticks are free and pretty good for that purpose.
Use several layers to build it all up in 3D

I think you will find that the handles are very wide / blocky
-consider putting in a deeper groove at the first finger to act as a guard
& it's easier to make changes now.

Especially read this below
The Things I Advise New KnifeMakers Against






The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers v14

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E.Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos

BladeForums - E-books or Google books


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings & the Loveless book. Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 new videos, his sheath work is fantastic. I hope the videos are too)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info.
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use O1, A2, D2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for knifemaking.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

You can find a list of suppliers here

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Photo of a nice bevel filing jig

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder

Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html
http://www.atlasknife.com

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewelry and put on safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309



Searching
Search works for all users, even unpaid users.
Try it, I’ll bet you’re not the first to ask the question here


V14 Edited dead links
 
Last edited:
Wow everyone, thanks so much for your advice, and adding the pictures on here :)

The templates may look big, but the both knives are under 9 inches long

A C Richards, I really appreciate your offer to help me, you have no idea :P. I will talk to my dad and ask him, perhaps I should just send you a PM?

I will definitely check out the stickies and read those web tutorials. I'm sure a book isn't the BEST thing for me to learn, but it couldn't hurt. I'm already going to the bookstore today, so ill check and see if I can pick one up there

Oh, and one last thing, ill post pictures of the steps that we take to make the knife, and the final outcome (im sure it wont be amazing) but I think it would be cool to have those pics

Thanks everyone!!
 
Andrew,
Your PM is not set up but you can email me when you get set. My email is on my profile or you can go to my website. Just click on my name and the info will come up. Take care and will talk more soon.
 
I agree with Mr Wolf, the handles are perhaps where the greatest improvement could be made. I took the liberty of virtually tracing your designs for greater clarity, and modified what you had just as an example of what might be done to make them a little less boxy and hopefully a little more ergonomic. Do not make the mistake of thinking that what I drew was marvelous. If you put your design onto cardboard then you can take scissors, and start shaping the handle and explore different shapes.

Anyway, here are the "for instances". The top two are your original designs, and the bottom two have the handles modified.
1stdesigns15yrsFEET.gif


Oh yea, nice socks you had on. I thought your feet shouldn't be left out of the picture. ;-)

- Paul Meske, Wisconsin
 
lonepine said:
I agree with Mr Wolf, the handles are perhaps where the greatest improvement could be made. I took the liberty of virtually tracing your designs for greater clarity, and modified what you had just as an example of what might be done to make them a little less boxy and hopefully a little more ergonomic. Do not make the mistake of thinking that what I drew was marvelous. If you put your design onto cardboard then you can take scissors, and start shaping the handle and explore different shapes.

Anyway, here are the "for instances". The top two are your original designs, and the bottom two have the handles modified.
1stdesigns15yrsFEET.gif


Oh yea, nice socks you had on. I thought your feet shouldn't be left out of the picture. ;-)

- Paul Meske, Wisconsin
Click to expand...

HAHAHA, thanks I will definitely make the changes to the handles, I really appreciate your drawings to help me. Were the feet necessary? haha! I knew mine looked silly in the picture but those feet? haha

Anyways, thanks :)
 
I second the paint sticks. You can use a grinder or a jigsaw to speed up the process, although i find them a bit too thin (In width) to use as a template.
 
lonepine those mods look good, just what I was thinking :thumbup:

Second on the cardboard proto-types, I used dozens of them before I settled on my first blade designs.
 
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