First Time Overnighter, Need some Advice.

Z

zhangmaster12

Joined
Sep 14, 2007
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I'm planning to take my first over-nighter sometime this month or next month. I need some tips, ect.

Ill be Hiking up to a spot and spending the night, somewhere in driving distance of North Jersey. Probably the Catskills. If I an find a place closer, then then I will go there.

Shelter:
I think I will have to go with a tent. I'm not sure if I'm ready to build my own shelter yet. Whats your thoughts? Ill be going with my mom, so It will be a two person tent. I'm looking for a light, relatively inexpensive tent.
Should I put the tent on top of the snow? Or clear away snow? Pack it down?
Would it be better not to bring a tent? What are your thoughts WSS?

Sleeping:
Again, I need a sleeping bag. I want to be semi-comfy. And I don't want to spend a couple hundred on a super-high tech bag.
I saw a Coleman Juneau Sleeping bag for about $35. Unfortunately Its not a mummy bag. What are your suggestions for a sleeping bag? Temps will be probably in the teens.

Since we'll be in a tent, I'm not going to use a bivvy.
I have two Thermarests already. Used them for car-camping.

Water: How Much? It'll be one night, hike up a couple miles, Camp, Sleep, Hike down.

Clothes: As little Cotton as possible...Right?
Is Under-Armour any good?
Ive got it from sports. I have a nice North-face ski-jacket. So does my mom. We both have wool socks..

Fire:
Zippo, Matches, Firesteel. Ill take all three.
Firestarter will be Coleman fire sticks, shown in someone's review agaist WetFire. They are cheap and effective.

AND of course there will be pics and knife reviews: DogFather and Breeden Warthorn.
Possibly a BK-9 or SP10, depending on which one I decide to buy. I just want another big chopper. Any thoughts on BK-9 or SP10? Both are good. Ontario is a lot cheaper, I can get the Ontario and a Rat1 for the same price as the BK-9.

Packs: I have a camelback HAWG and my mom a Kelty 2500.

Thats about it. Anything I forgot?


Hopefully this thread will help many other newbie hikers as well.
 
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I have one piece of advice you probably won't want to hear - wait. I wouldn't make my first ever remote camping trip a winter trip unless you can catch overnight lows at least in the 40's, which probably isn't going to happen in that area this time of year. That goes triple for trying to do it without a tent. It can be seriously dangerous if you are miles away from your car and realize at 1am that you really weren't as prepared as you thought you were.

I have no idea how old you are or what the situation is, but be a good son and don't put your Mom through that :)
 
Get all of your gear organized and set it up in your back yard. You will know what works and what doesn't pretty quick. That way you get practice setting up in a controlled environment and not in some frozen campsite 25km from home. Get comfortable with your gear and skills before going afield. Maybe not the advice you want to hear, but trust me you have plenty of time for overnighters. Practice first.:thumbup:
 
Oh first off if this is your first time make sure you have a map of the area, compus, GPS, Let others know your time line (ie when you expect to be back or check in).
Ok now that that is out of the way. Tent is good Go with what you feel comfortable with setting up and think is enough space. Out of the two listed I prefer the Pinnacle (2nd) one. I just like that style best. Make sure you have a good rain fly that covers well.
Since its winter I would also recommended a warm sleeping bag and you to wear layers of clothing. I have a mummy and a "regular" the mummy bag sure did pay off in the cold but isnt necessary. You can wear a hat or mask to maintain head warmth.
Clothing: Underarmor is great for pulling sweat from the body which is good since hiking in cold weather still means sweating. I have worn cotton before, the issue is it gets wet and is difficult to dry. Dress appropriately.
Fire: bring anything and everything you want. Never could be too prepared to make a fire in the winter. The harder part will be finding wood to burn. It is around just hunt for it.
Water: Bring as much as you can carry or bring a way to get clean drinking water. I find that in the winter I sweat more hiking due to layer then in summer. If its just over night bring 2 gallons per person. But that varies depending on situations.

If you ever realize or feel you are in over your head there is no shame in turning back and trying it another day. Winter camping is rougher then most. Just make sure before you go to take a few pics of a knife for the forum.

(take this how you want its just my thoughts on the matter)
 
Yea, I will definitely try to see what works and what doesn't work. No problem with that advice. Im thinking of taking a winter car-camping trip next week to see what ill need and what I wont need; and to practice skills, ect.

Yea, I really dont think ill be going tent-less. I dont plan on hiking very far away from the car, so I have some sort of a fall-back point.

Thanks everyone! I forgot to mention that I will rent a "wilderness" GPS. Any suggestions? They pretty cheap to rent. Around 40 bucks for a week.

Whats great about campmor, is that Ill be able to go to the store and actually go into the tents. I like the Pinnacle too. Seems more streamlines against wind. I found a better sleeping bag.
 
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I would have to agree with those who recommend waiting for warmer weather for your first overnight hiking trip. Especially because of your Northern location.

Buying your equipment and trying it out in the backyard first is a good suggestion. Even us old codgers do this. Few things are worse than fumbling with a new (unfamiliar) tent and other equipment in the cold and snow.

If you must get out into the woods, try making it a short day hike first. Figure out whether or not you are trying to carry too much weight and get your pack adjusted.

Get there early and spend the day setting up and going through your routine of building the camp, your fire, cooking a meal etc. Days are short right now, so be sure to allow yourself plenty of time to break camp, pack up and hike back before dark. It is easy to get disoriented in a snowy environment even with a good light.

I envy your enthusiasm and also your Mom's willingness to go along. Does she have any winter hiking/camping experience? Your first overnighter should be a great, memorable experience. Practice and preparation can make it so.

Codger :thumbup:

EDIT: All sleeping bags are not created equal. Some manufacturers are way optimistic about their temp ratings. The Slumberjack looks great in the photos, but I saw some on display and they were not good quality, IMHO. Also, if you aren't going far, you really won't need a GPS. It takes some practice to be able to use one correctly and know when to trust it and when not to.
 
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Well congratulations and have fun on your adventure. Winter does make a big difference in gear. Even here in south Texas, we don't have snow, but compared to the other 10 hot months, its hard to use your hands for basic stuff, and you can forget about that 2 am pee break :o
 
ZM,

Winter camping is a different beast. As mentioned, much more prep and experience is required.

For example, the thermarests will not adequately insulate you from the cold ground, and any sleeping bag insulation on the bottom is crushed and of little insulatiing value. Get closed-cell pads to go under your thermarests. Even then, they could be inadequate. This is another thing to test in the yard.

Study Brian Andrews navigation videos (on his website) and get a good compass and practice a lot. The GPS should be considered a secondary navigation tool, especially in winter given the increased chance the batteries or device could fail. Campmor will have topo maps of the area.

Also study Kevin's signaling presentation in case you run into trouble.

Given your proximity to Campmor, some gear suggestions:

The campmor goose down bags are a great deal. $149

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___40067

The eureka backcountry 2 is a good tent. The mesh vent and window can be open or zipped close to help control condensation and wind:

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___24920

How close are you to the Delaware Water Gap?
 
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The biggest thing you have to worry about out here in Cali is having your car vandalized while you are away.

I took my Matrix a couple times and someone always tried to get in it. I just started leaving it unlocked hoping they would do no damage and leave when they found the car empty.

I will never take my new Corvette anywhere and park out at night where I'll be away from it!

Looks like on my future camp/hiking trips I will be bumming a ride....
 
Warmth & weight! Lack of the first will kill you and too much of the second and you won't have any fun on your trip.

Invest in some winter clothes from inside out. Moisture-wicking & insulative clothes are a must. Overheating and then freezing due to sweat stuck to your body can be dangerous.

Don't let weight bog you down. Remember that you don't want to carry more than 1/3 your body weight in gear. That Coleman sleeping bag sounds heavy. You should get a basic mummy bag for both weight and heat retention. Unless you have outdoor experience, you really need a tent.

Anyone going with you? Best to have someone who has been in the outdoors a bit (they understand weather conditions, how to make a snow camp and can detect things like oncoming hypothermia.). Worst-case 2 people can share carrying the gear (like a rental tent) and can render aid to each other.

Lastly, leave detailed word on where you will be going, and when you plan on coming back.
 
Clearing the snow from the ground is very important, it will keep your tent warmer than if on top of snow.

Temps in the teens are no joke and could threaten your life if ill prepared. +1 to testing in your back yard first.

Good luck and have fun.
One more thing, I have not spent the night outside while wearing UA but have fell asleep inside with it on and learned quickly to never do that again. Waking up in a pool of sweat really sucks.
 
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cdhumiston said:
The biggest thing you have to worry about out here in Cali is having your car vandalized while you are away.

I took my Matrix a couple times and someone always tried to get in it. I just started leaving it unlocked hoping they would do no damage and leave when they found the car empty.

I will never take my new Corvette anywhere and park out at night where I'll be away from it!

Looks like on my future camp/hiking trips I will be bumming a ride....
Click to expand...

In the Smokey Mountain NF it's so bad that most smart people usually park in town and have a taxi - yes a taxi take them to the trail head and then pick them up and take them back to their car at the end of their trip. The good thing is it's only about a 10-20 mile drive.
 
Winter is not the time for a first camping trip, especially when no experienced campers are coming along. Better to use this time accumulating appropriate gear and getting familiar with it. (You mention packs for you and your mom - Are you planning on backpacking or car camping? The back yard is a good first overnight. If you don't have a yard that will work, there may be a public campground that is close by. Also, you can use a city park in your area to set up camp, etc. You just can't stay overnight. There should be no problem setting up your tent and rolling out your sleeping pad and kit. Just reassure the curious park personnel that you are testing out new gear and that you are not planning on camping overnight.
 
First off, you must have a really cool mom to do this for you. Tell her thanks!

To add to what's been written: I spent two weeks of last year's Christmas vacation camping in the backyard with my kids. It was a lot of fun, it taught them how to quickly set up and take down their gear, and they learned what worked for them in snow and temps that went below zero. Cold is a really fast teacher and it's better to do the learning at home.

I put plastic between my tent and the packed down snow. Otherwise the tent floor freezes to the ground.

Practice at home until you're comfortable with the temps, then take a candle or two for the tent and backup hand warmers for your sleeping bag. Take a bunch, they're cheap protection against cold nights. I have a -20 and a -30 bag, so I don't worry about nights, but on a budget you will and the hand warmers are cheap insurance.

Remember to vent your clothes when you hike in. You'll generate a lot of heat and you do NOT want to sweat. Cooler is better than warmer on the hike in. You don't really worry about cold until you stop moving.

Vent your tent. I was in -15 overnight last year, and was amazed at the ice that formed on my Northface Tadpole ceiling. The wind was blowing hard so I thought a little vent would suffice. Wrong. (Also, we built a bonfire on a field covered with about 2' of snow. With the cold and wind, we couldn't really feel the heat much past 12-18". It was like the night just sucked all the heat out of the fire. It was sobering to realize our equipment, not our ability to make fire, would be a lifesaver in those temperatures in a real emergency situation. Also, your fingers get fairly numb getting undressed for the night, even if you put gloves back on a few times. Get fast and dressing/undressing, even in a tent.)

Don't wear so many clothes, especially socks, that you constrict blood flow. It will make you colder than wearing fewer/thinner layers. Again, experience will teach you.

A hat and scarf will go a long way to keep you warm at night. Don't put a heavy blanket over your sleeping bag. It will compress the insulation and you will be colder than if you had no such blanket at all.

Eat meat. It really generates your furnace. I used to eat one-pot soups and hot drinks. Wrong again. They will relax your body and you will get colder after a while. Better to stoke your internal furnace than rely on hot liquids, which will open your pores and cause you to sweat. Read this photoessay, you won't encounter these extreme temps, but it is informative: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18236

You'll need at least two layers of insulation under your sleeping bag in winter. A thermarest and closed cell thermarest should be fine. Your backyard experiences will let you know. Women tend to sleep colder than men, so your mom may need more insulation and/or a lower rated sleeping bag. Get her in on the backyard fun so she learns, too.

About the water, I've never needed close to 2 gallons for an overnighter. I guess it depends on how far you hike, and how much you carry. Put your bottles upsidedown in a snow bank so you can open them in the morning. Water freezes from the top down. If you trust the caps you can also keep them in the tent, but I've had good luck in snow.

Food is different frozen. Plan your meals carefully. Test the food in the freezer and try to use it frozen. That's what it will be like outside. Peanut butter and cheese, for example, will be solid blocks of ice. Try to do your prep work at home and take pre-cut food. (Hint: cheese fondue is an excellent winter meal, if you prep it properly at home. Grate all the cheese, mix with a few tablespoons of flour to keep the fondue from getting stringy and the grated cheese from freezing together. Add a bit of nutmeg and cayenne. At camp, halve a garlic clove and rub the inside of your pan. Heat frozen wine or stock, all the cheese a bit at a time, and enjoy with pre-cut bread, pickles, dry Italian sausage--whatever. Filling and tasty!)

Listen to what people who actually do a lot of cold weather camping have to say, like the folks on this board. You can learn a lot from them. Now's not the time to listen to 3 season campers who may have good intentions but can lead you dangerously astray.

Go with an open mind. Expect adversity and setbacks. They should be minor if you test your gear and yourself first, and if you stay somewhat near the car. You'll have more fun than you expect and memories to last a lifetime. Good luck!
 
J's Knives-N-More said:
Well congratulations and have fun on your adventure. Winter does make a big difference in gear. Even here in south Texas, we don't have snow, but compared to the other 10 hot months, its hard to use your hands for basic stuff, and you can forget about that 2 am pee break :o
Click to expand...

Ahhhhh.....

The voice of experience! :thumbup::thumbup:

Robert
 
I'd -really- suggest not doing a winter trip as your first walk. As others have mentioned, practice in your backyard with the gear in all kinds of weather.
Your safety and the safety of your mom (mum for us aussies) isn't something you want to play around with.

A compass and map are essential, but even more important are knowing how to use them. I strongly recommend meeting with someone who can navigate and learning from them. You always read about people working on their carving and firelighting skills, but these take a backseat to navigation.

I remember my first walking trip, burdened with a pack that was way too heavy, full of unsuitable gear, clothing and tinned food. Luckily I was walking with two very experienced ultralight enthusiasts who sorted me out quick smart.

Most of all, have fun!
 
good luck, you can try wally world for a decent sleeping bag, I got a mummy bag rated at zero degree's for around 46 bucks, take plenty of food and water, food keeps your metabolism going which in turn keeps your core body temp warm!!!!!!! good luck and have fun.....oh yeah, I used about a gallon of water on my over nighter week ago, I didn't really realize how important water was in could temperatures, I had an empty jug and collected water from a nearby creek and treated it, and used all of it by daybreak......
 
One idea, that I practice from time to time, is to do a test run on a day trip. I load my backpack with like five times more things than I really need.
At the fire place I sort of test what I need and what I dont.
Next time I just bring what I used the first time and see if I was right.
Like when I tested to heat water. I tried like seven different fancy pieces of cans and kettles but ended up with a Trangia coffe pot.

You dont really need that many "fancy" things. Look for things that have multiple functions. If you are camping in the winter you need to melt water. Just bring a big bandana or shemagh. Put snow in it and tie it on a stick not far from the fire. Place a can where the water ends up. easy.
 
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