First traditional folder?

[freq18hz]

Hey all...

I know zilch about traditional folders, other than my cubscout knife of old was duller than a barn door.

It seems to me a lot of companies make the same kind of knife, dogleg jack, canoe, stockman etc?

Can someone explain how this works, and where to start?


-Freq

 

[Will Power]

I advise you to spend a bit of time here searching in past posts and looking at the pictures.It will help you as Traditional pocket-knives do come in a mass of sizes and styles-this is what makes them so attractive.

 

[mnblade]

Hey all...

I know zilch about traditional folders ... Can someone explain how this works, and where to start?

Well, first you need to make three key choices:

What pattern/s do you prefer? This is a very personal thing. Among the factors will be A) how many blades do you prefer, and B) what you wear on a day-in, day-out basis. If you wear jeans, you can comfortably carry something larger than if you work in an office and wear dress pants.

Carbon or stainless steel? A lot of us like old school carbon steel that will patina over time (and rust if you don't take care of it). The old U.S.-made Schrade Old Timers used 1095 steel. Case calls theirs Chrome Vanadium or CV for short.

At the same time, a lot of guys prefer stainless and argue that modern stainless from a proper knife manufacturer (i.e. not what you'll find an a $7 Pakistani knife you buy in a gas station) takes and holds an edge that's more than adequate for EDC and real world pocketknife use. I carry knives with both.

What's your price range? I think you've basically got three ranges ... For $30 or less, you're mainly looking at lower-end Case, Bear & Sons, Utica Cutlery's Catskill series, Opinel, or stuff made overseas by the likes of Buck, Rough Rider and so forth. Also, if you're not averse to buying second-hand stuff on a popular online auction site, you can do very well there for <$30 as well. For $30 to around $70 you can choose from most any Case or U.S.-made Buck knives, several Queen offerings, German Eye Brand, Boker, and most of the yellow-handled composite models from Moore Maker. For $70 and up, you get into some primo choices. Look for Great Eastern Cutlery, Tidioute, Schatt & Morgan, stag- or bone-handled Moore Makers, etc.

I just fired this off over a cup of coffee, so I do not claim that this list is complete. I'm sure some of the others around here will chime in with their 2 cents as well.

Anyway, welcome to the folksiest sub-forum around -- and to traditional knives. :thumbup:

 

[coop1957]

If you look at the shepard hills cutlery site the have a lot of info on Case knives. Hit the pattern button and you will see a silhouette of each pattern. There is also a library there with info.
Good luck. Traditionals can be very addictive.

 

[freq18hz]

I guess the real question I'm asking is: Why are all these companies making similar designs, that are named the same? Stockman, dogleg jack etc?

-Freq

 

[jackknife]

I guess the real question I'm asking is: Why are all these companies making similar designs, that are named the same? Stockman, dogleg jack etc?

-Freq

A long time ago, long before the computer age and the age of technology, people used to earn their living outside, doing a particular job. Sometimes the manufactorers made knives that were suited for that particular proffesion. Thus the working cowboy got the cattle knife which begatt he stockman. The sailor got rigging knives, the electrician got the knife that became know as the TL-29, the Elephants toenail was popular with construction workers, and so on. A lot of knives were from the job done. Then you had the people who worked in offices and white collar jobs but still needed a knife. They got the varius pen knives and peanuts and such. Boy scouts had thier own knife as well.

I think knives had thier periods. The period from 1850 to 1870, more barlows were shipped out from the Russell knife factory to jobbers and trading posts than any other knife. It was the ubiquitous knife of it's age. But when I was growing up just after WW2, the two blade serpintine jack about 3 inches closed was the knife of that period. It seemed like every 3 out of 5 men who took out a pocketknife when I was a kid, had a little two blade jack.

Tradional pocket knives are a facinating thing, with many patterns to pick from. And in the natural bone, wood, or stag handles, and you have a beautiful object that gets better with time, as the steel gets a grey patina from use, and the handles mellow as well as the years go by.

Welcome to traditional, Freq!

Carl.

 

[DennisStrickland]

welcome freq to the forum. as jackknife says much of the monikers for knives came from the distant past. for a newbie looking for a traditional knife it's akin to asking someone about automobiles. example you just hit civilazation for the 1st time & had a pocketful of diamonds & told someone you wanted a car. they would say " 4 door , 2 door, big or small, utilitarian or rolls royce,4 wheel drive or 2 wheel drive etc. the best thing is to go to a big dealer & look at all the models or purchase a book on old & new knives . most of us grew up with knives so it's easy for us but a beginner would be baffled.

 

[freq18hz]

Yes this is exactly where I am at. A child of the 70s, I never had a slipjoint other than my cubscout and boyscout knives. I was never much of an aficionado. I had a couple old unidentifiable (to me) slip joint knives from my Grandfather (who raised me), but they were unfortunately disposed of (not by me). I've been on the general forums collecting fixed blades, folders. Now I'm interested in a traditional knife. Something I can use that looks less weapon like. I'm very intrigued by all the finishes, handle accouterment and blades etc.

I suppose I was wondering if there was a main company that made all of these knives originally that is no longer around? And now many companies since have just started making copies of each other's knives? I understand many are suited to particular jobs...

I just find it curious and fascinating that there seem to be standard designs that these knife makers follow, all the while injecting their own craftsmanship and materials into them.

Also this is probably a question that will make everyone cringe...but ignoring fit and finish/craftsmanship, and handle materials...what functional benefit do some of these high end traditional knives have over a garden variety swiss army knife? Are the blades of better steel, or ground better etc?


I sure wish I had my Grandfather's knife. It had a wonderful old patina on it...dark handles. Looked very much like a Canoe if my memory serves me correctly.

-Freq (Christopher)

 

[silenthunterstudios]

Well, it depends. The hunt is my favorite part of owning slipjoints. I just picked up an old Kutmaster stockman from the 50's in trade at a gun show two weeks ago. I've had all kinds of slippies, from Camillus and all of its umbrella brands, to Bucks, to Schrades both American and Chinese etc. You can start out on Case models. There are so many out there, with so many handle variations, it would probably take you years, or months with these guys, to acquire them all. I would say go for Queen and GEC first, but I had a good time going after Case knives. If you want to move to the head of the class right away, I would go for the best production knives out there (save the customs for later). I have been looking at the Case Bose collaboration folders. I had a large hunter collaboration, and it just wasn't me. Becoming a little bit more knowledgeable about what makes a good knife, I lost out when I traded it away. They really are very nice folders.

Get a subscription to Knife World while you're at it, they have at least one article every month on slipjoints.

 

[freq18hz]

So is it possible anyone could break down the brands for me somewhat?

For instance, on non traditional folders, makers like Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw make really nice knives, with a mostly medium price point. Stepping up to a higher end production knife is usually something like a WH, or a Chris Reeve etc.

Where does Case, Camillus, Northwoods, Shrade, Queen, Boker, Shatt & Morgan, etc fit on the price/quality scale?

-Freq

 

[SteelSnob]

Get a Case Swayback Jack in Chestnut Bone and CV Steel. They're available on the bay.0 It was my first traditional and for the money it's the best one i've had. F&f is near flawless.

 

[Will Power]

Freq, That's a matter of some debate

There was a recent thread on wether CASE can be regarded as a benchmark of standards, a mid point.

I feel it's due, as with other knives, to the personal likes and associations of the knife-owner. Manufacturers of Traditional pocket knives each have their own house style, steel, use of handle materials shield etc.

Camillus and Schrade have recently become extinct, the Old Timer series attracts a considerable following (cult status) CASE,Queen cutlery have different styles in steel and scales but sell for similar amounts, Schatt a bit more,same with GEC. Canal Street is a small company that has its followers too. Northwoods has I believe, changed hands, they cost a bit more. Böker is German made but inexpensive, and I find the recent ones excellent value and quality, a distinct improvement in fact. Don't forget that Buck makes slipjoints too! Consider too, European and Chinese made Traditional/slipjoint knives. Then you move on to made to measure custom knives........

 

[SteelSnob]

And each company has products tgat are better than others. Not all Case knives are as good as the Swayback Jack, in fact no production knife I've seen yet has matched the f&f of the Swayback Jack. That's why I reccomended it. How I've found out what I know about slip joints is from doing searches and reading the posts in this forum, with the occassional question. If you have specific questions you can PM me and I'll tell you what I know. As a whole GEC is my favorite all around knife company so far because of their solid build quality,good steel(1095) aestetics and f&f but I'm relatively new to slip joints. I know you mentioned you weren't good at sharpening before, but try some CV or plain 1095 and that will change. You'll get screaming sharp edges with ease and it will hold it good too.

 

[freq18hz]

And each company has products tgat are better than others. Not all Case knives are as good as the Swayback Jack, in fact no production knife I've seen yet has matched the f&f of the Swayback Jack. That's why I reccomended it. How I've found out what I know about slip joints is from doing searches and reading the posts in this forum, with the occassional question. If you have specific questions you can PM me and I'll tell you what I know. As a whole GEC is my favorite all around knife company so far because of their solid build quality,good steel(1095) aestetics and f&f but I'm relatively new to slip joints. I know you mentioned you weren't good at sharpening before, but try some CV or plain 1095 and that will change. You'll get screaming sharp edges with ease and it will hold it good too.

Thanks to all for the info. I'm decent at sharpening now. I can get things shaving sharp freehand, and with my DMT aligner I can get things razor sharp. I do hear people talking about whittling hairs and things though...I have not been able to achieve that level of sharpness yet. My Spyderco sage 1 and 2 came with edges that are sharper than I can get so far on my own. Also, people seem to get really amazing mirror finishes on their edges, which I can't seem to do.

I'll have to check out GEC, thanks everyone for the help! I'm visiting a store that carries a bunch of different brands tomorrow, so I'll be walking away with something for sure. I'll post when I get back! =)


-Freq (Christopher)

 

[dannyp]

I just find it curious and fascinating that there seem to be standard designs that these knife makers follow, all the while injecting their own craftsmanship and materials into them.

This is one of the coolest things about traditional knives. If you find a pattern that you really like you can find it available in many different handle materials and it also gives you different options when it comes to steel.

Also this is probably a question that will make everyone cringe...but ignoring fit and finish/craftsmanship, and handle materials...what functional benefit do some of these high end traditional knives have over a garden variety swiss army knife? Are the blades of better steel, or ground better etc?

You can find better steel and there are more blade shapes available but I would say that most of the cost is attributed to fit, finish, and handle materials when it comes to slipjoints. It's not too different from modern knives. You can get something on the cheaper end of the spectrum like a yellow sodbuster that will be a great cutter without much flair. You can also spend more for a GEC with stag handles or a Case with raindrop damascus and have something that is as enjoyable to look at and show off as it is to use. It all just depends what you're looking for.

 

[freq18hz]

Thanks to all for the help. I'm heading to a new store that I have never been to before that seems like they specialize in traditional folders. Very excited to be making a purchase tomorrow!

-freq

 

[SteelSnob]

We also have some great dealers here if you don't see anything you like. There's Derrick from Knives Ship Free and Knifeswapper from Collectors Knives and probably some more I forgot to mention.

 

[mnblade]

So is it possible anyone could break down the brands for me somewhat?

For instance, on non traditional folders, makers like Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw make really nice knives, with a mostly medium price point. Stepping up to a higher end production knife is usually something like a WH, or a Chris Reeve etc.

Where does Case, Camillus, Northwoods, Shrade, Queen, Boker, Shatt & Morgan, etc fit on the price/quality scale?

-Freq

I think this link will help you out quite a bit.

 

[freq18hz]

I think this link will help you out quite a bit.

A link back to the forum page?


-freq

 

[freq18hz]

Just picked these up:

Not sure which I like better yet. I'm sure I paid too much, but that's the cost of doing business with a brick and mortar. I am surprised to find neither are particularly sharp.

-Freq