Fish mouth

[jdm61]

I have some questions about multi-bar damascus. If you cut the "fish mouth" notch in the tip of the bar to bring the pattern together, how do you make that forge weld without disputing the pattern? Also, how do you forge or stock remove the bevels and avoid either disrupting the straight lines of the pattern or getting a drastically different look from the multiple bars as you grind deeper into them down toward the edge?

 

[jdm61]

Anybody?

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

The "Fish Mouth" should be the exact reverse of the desired tip shape. Draw the tip as desired on paper, and cut it out. Cut right down the center line, and tape the edge sides together, with the center part now on the outside. You now have the butterfly ( what I call it), or fish mouth pattern.
Use this pattern to mark and cut out the damascus. File the cut sides straight and smooth. Bring the tip to full forging heat and close the mouth until just touching...... make sure it is centered. Flux and bring to welding heat, re-flux and weld up solid. As normal, start with soft blows and work up to harder blows. Switch from side to side with every blow. Draw out the sides evenly, but do very little drawing of the tip.
This will give you a blade with the edge pattern going right around the tip, and the center pattern shaped exactly like the tip shape.

Hope this helps.

 

[jdm61]

Thanks, Stacy. Do you weld it up by putting it on edge and hitting it first or by hitting only on the flats?

The "Fish Mouth" should be the exact reverse of the desired tip shape. Draw the tip as desired on paper, and cut it out. Cut right down the center line, and tape the edge sides together, with the center part now on the outside. You now have the butterfly ( what I call it), or fish mouth pattern.
Use this pattern to mark and cut out the damascus. File the cut sides straight and smooth. Bring the tip to full forging heat and close the mouth until just touching...... make sure it is centered. Flux and bring to welding heat, re-flux and weld up solid. As normal, start with soft blows and work up to harder blows. Switch from side to side with every blow. Draw out the sides evenly, but do very little drawing of the tip.
This will give you a blade with the edge pattern going right around the tip, and the center pattern shaped exactly like the tip shape.

Hope this helps.

 

[A C Richards]

Joe, I do a very light fusion weld with a tig welder. I leave enough material to grind off any distortion. Most of the mosaic is a tiled billet so the pattern is through and through with little distortion. Also loaf billets are the same so I do not do much forging of bevels but normally do profile the blade with the hammer. Now twist and others I do a little forging of bevels but sometimes I grind the whole blade from bar. Especially on a ladder billet. Either that or I profile the blade before I ladder it. You really have to play with it to see what the results are going to be.

 

[jdm61]

I have seen guys like Russ Andrews forge profile his dual layer steel before laddering and I know that you can just stock remove tiled mosiac blades without messing up the look.. The thing that worries me is that if you cut into some patterns like twist, the pattern is going to look quite different than it does on the surface unless you have already taken a lot of it off. On multi bar blade, I would be a bit worried about getting the plain old twist up by the spine and the little stars at the edge.

Joe, I do a very light fusion weld with a tig welder. I leave enough material to grind off any distortion. Most of the mosaic is a tiled billet so the pattern is through and through with little distortion. Also loaf billets are the same so I do not do much forging of bevels but normally do profile the blade with the hammer. Now twist and others I do a little forging of bevels but sometimes I grind the whole blade from bar. Especially on a ladder billet. Either that or I profile the blade before I ladder it. You really have to play with it to see what the results are going to be.

 

[A C Richards]

I have not done too many, actually only one multi bar twist and it did not come out as well as I like. I did not remove enough material. I will be doing some more experimentation when i get caught up. Maybe someone will chime in that has done more.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I go from the edges until it is a solid weld. Then I work from the top and bottom to make sure it is tight and draw the tip a tad at the same time.