Fit up of hidden tang

D

deker

Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
3,496
I'm currently working on a hidden tang piece and have a question. The handle will be held on with a single pin and I have some spacers between the guard and the handle block (ebony, stainless, ebony. The ebony is 1/4" and the stainless is 16ga, so about 1/2" of spacer since I lost a touch of the ebony in flattening it). My question is about how I get a good, tight fit-up of everything. The tang is drilled, the wood block is not yet. I figured I could add an extra piece of spacer when I drill the wood so that the pin will cause the wood to "snug up" when inserted without the extra spacer due to the slight misalignment (if I taper one end of the pin to lead it in). I'm worried that isn't the right way to do it though.

How do you folks ensure a good, snug fit when that pin goes in?

Thanks,

-d
 
It might sound a little stupid, but your epoxy will help a little to take up the slop.
I also fit up everything at once and drill the handle and tang at one time so the holes are aligned. Then, I'll put a slight bend in the pin and place the bend towards the guard when putting it in. This sort of pushes the handle forward.
But, I'll admit publicly, I've added a piece once to take up a sloppy job of fitting things!
I'd say you're on the right track!
 
kbaknife said:
It might sound a little stupid, but your epoxy will help a little to take up the slop.
Click to expand...
I kind of thought that, but didn't want a glue line anywhere...

kbaknife said:
I also fit up everything at once and drill the handle and tang at one time so the holes are aligned. Then, I'll put a slight bend in the pin and place the bend towards the guard when putting it in. This sort of pushes the handle forward.
Click to expand...
There were a couple problems with that plan for me:

- The tang seemed to harden a LITTLE bit, so I needed to use a carbide bit
- I don't know how to ensure that I drill to hit the center of the tang. I tried it this way once and ended up with a hole WAY too close to the edge of the tang for comfort.

kbaknife said:
But, I'll admit publicly, I've added a piece once to take up a sloppy job of fitting things!
I'd say you're on the right track!
Click to expand...

See, I was thinking of adding a temporary spacer when I drilled so that upon it's removal the hole offset would pull the handle forward when a pin went in. It SEEMS like a great idea, but I'm just not certain it will work right. I suppose I can try on some scraps or something to check.

If this one turns out well, I'm blaming you for the handle shape inspiration Karl. That last walnut hunter you did has been stuck in my head for days... :)

Thanks,

-d
 
forgot to tell you last night that i take a spacer out
leave extra meat on the handle to square things up get everything close but not fitting and then take some off the spacer so if you mess up the spacer you can just cut a 2nd and not have to grab a whole new block of wood to work on
call me if im not settign this up right
im not the best at puttign thoughts on paper or on the computer
btw 10-1 i ll be at "class"
 
I always oversize the hole you drill in the tang. That way pin has some space and the tang can relax in the handle and the spacers and guard will sit flat against the handle with no gaps. I use a simple clamp made with all thread to hold everything together while the epoxy dries. The epoxy will take up any slack in the oversized tang hole.

This is my clamp on My buddy Bob Jensens bowie. You can also drill the pin hole after the epoxy dries, as in this case.
 
Bruce Bump said:
I always oversize the hole you drill in the tang. That way pin has some space and the tang can relax in the handle and the spacers and guard will sit flat against the handle with no gaps. I use a simple clamp made with all thread to hold everything together while the epoxy dries. The epoxy will take up any slack in the oversized tang hole.

This is my clamp on My buddy Bob Jensens bowie. You can also drill the pin hole after the epoxy dries, as in this case.
Click to expand...

Aha! Of course! how much do you usually oversize it?

Thanks,

-d
 
deker said:
See, I was thinking of adding a temporary spacer when I drilled so that upon it's removal the hole offset would pull the handle forward when a pin went in.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm thinking backwards or something (which is why I probably shouldn't post before work) but if you *remove* a spacer, won't that leave a, uh, space? That is, the hole will be off in the wrong direction to pull the handle tight. I think what you're trying to do is what woodworkers do with a pinned tenon. Drill the handle, fit it up to the tang, mark the center of the hole in the tang, then remove the handle and drill the tang a smidge *closer* to the guard from the marked center.

rmd
 
- The tang seemed to harden a LITTLE bit, so I needed to use a carbide bit

You can draw that tang back soft. I sometimes suspend that blade in a tube of water and take a torch and draw that tang back to just turning grey and let cool. Clean it up so you can see your colors, and do it again 2 or 3 times. That way your tang is back dead soft. Drills easily.
 
One thing thats works is this. cut your slot in the handle where the tang is going to go, the slot shold be a tad bigger that the handle. then polish the tang and coat in a light layer of wax. then fill the hole in the handle with epoxy and pust the tang in and let it harden. when the epoxy is set remove the blade from the handle by heating it so the wax will melt and the blade will come out. now this will onley work if you have not drilled the tang hole, but if you have then its easy to fix. first coat the tang with wax like be for, then cover the hole on one side with tape and turn the blade over and fill the hole with wax. now remove the tape and now the epoxy wont go into the tang pin hole and make it impossable to remove. this makes for a nice tight fit. also did you know that the real tang pins where bamboo cones that taper to a point so you hammer it in till tight and cut off the parts that stick out from the sides. hope this helps. also one more thing i do is i sharper the pin to a point and hammer it so it pulls back the knife into the handle
 
rmd said:
Maybe I'm thinking backwards or something (which is why I probably shouldn't post before work) but if you *remove* a spacer, won't that leave a, uh, space? That is, the hole will be off in the wrong direction to pull the handle tight. I think what you're trying to do is what woodworkers do with a pinned tenon. Drill the handle, fit it up to the tang, mark the center of the hole in the tang, then remove the handle and drill the tang a smidge *closer* to the guard from the marked center.

rmd
Click to expand...

I've been having trouble with this too (s'why I posted :) ). The tang is already drilled though, so I was kind of reversing what you described. Does that make any sense? I still want to figure this out for the future.

I like Bruce's idea though, requires less thinking and more working! I think I have a bar clamp and some scrap wood that I can use for the clamp, so I'll probably run with that.

-d
 
I made three different sizes of hidden tang saws 1/8, 3/16 and 1/4". They work great and cut fast and accurate. It is a good way to use some of the scrap carbon steel pieces laying around also. HT just like a knife. Start out with a drilled hole and then tang saw it to a rectangular shape.

Tangsaw.jpg
 
kbaknife said:
- The tang seemed to harden a LITTLE bit, so I needed to use a carbide bit

You can draw that tang back soft. I sometimes suspend that blade in a tube of water and take a torch and draw that tang back to just turning grey and let cool. Clean it up so you can see your colors, and do it again 2 or 3 times. That way your tang is back dead soft. Drills easily.
Click to expand...

You know, I did that, and it was still pretty hard. Thankfully I had a 1/8" carbide bit around. I don't anymore though since I was stupid and forgot to back the tang up with a piece of scrap when I drilled...:rolleyes:

Of course, my twist drills are pretty much crap. I need to invest in a good set of HSS twist drills, numbers, letters, and all...

-d
 
B Finnigan said:
I made three different sizes of hidden tang saws 1/8, 3/16 and 1/4". They work great and cut fast and accurate. It is a good way to use some of the scrap carbon steel pieces laying around also. HT just like a knife. Start out with a drilled hole and then tang saw it to a rectangular shape.

Tangsaw.jpg
Click to expand...

Looks niiice....Eventually I'll make a set of these. What I did for this one was to grind a copy of the tang in mild steel, clamp it up in a vise, heat it and burn it in. It's a little loose, but the epoxy will take up that slack.

JTKnives:

Won't the wax left in the handle prevent the final epoxy from setting up?

-d
 
no you let the epoxy set up then remove the blade by heating it. the epoxy will be hard as a rock when you remove the blade. The onley resion to do it this way is if you want to be able remove the blade by removing the pin. this is usefull for swords and tantos
 
another silly suggestion. Have you drilled the wood yet? If the tang is too long for the length that you have cut the wood, and yo haven't drilled the wood yet, grind a little bit off of the end of the tang:) Or do like i do and start over with a new peice of wood...lol
 
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