Fix Problems Ourselves? (Triad Lock Spring)

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kfcounts

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Sep 15, 2008
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I have 2 Hold Outs with Triads, returned a Code4, and have a new Mini Recon 1 Spear Point on order.

All triad locks i have handled had springs that were too rigid. I know many recommend leaving them open for a while. I've tried this for 2+ weeks and the results aren't what I want. The problem is that the steel does not change with leaving it open.

Those of you with engineering (material science) training know that steel has an elastic region and plastic region in regards to its flexibility. A proper spring shouldn't show any lasting change if you just flex/stretch and hold it (if it remains in its elastic range). Thats how springs work. You can flex (elastically) them repeatedly and they come back to there original position until you cycle so many times the spring will plastically deform, then cold work harden, then break. Think about your garage door springs that work for 10 years then one week they both snap. Those springs stay extended (door in closed position) for days/weeks/years and don't change their strength, until they've exceeded their cycle life.

On your pocket clips that have spring flexibility, you have to bend them beyond their elastic range (pull them up off the handle scale) until you have entered the plastic region, and when you release, the clip won't return to its prior position (against the scale).

So I'm saying/thinking that to fix the spring problem, we need to change the spring's spring rate (measure of its resistance to flexing)(how much force it takes to move a set distance). This can be done by changing out the steel spring for something else, changing the temper of the steel (heating/cooling it) or reducing the springs cross sectional area (filling down the thickness of a section of the spring (think about how a frame lock is designed). Reducing the spring rate will allow the spring to still have its design flex travel, but take less force to accomplish.

Has anyone experimented with modifying the springs? I'd like to start a discussion of how we can fix these springs ourselves and am seeking opinions and past history.
 
Too rigid, meaning..?

Personally I don't think it's a great idea to tamper with locks in general.
 
The Tri-Ad Lock was designed for the lockbar to sit deeper in the tang (cut-out section) of the blade than most other lockback designs. With stiffer spring-action and so forth.

Also, liner-locks and framelocks have become very popular over the past 20 to 30 years.

So folks that are used to those or another brand of lockback have to take the time to get used to the differences of the Tri-Ad Lock.

Other tips to help in opening and closing the Tri-Ad Lock:

I have found that it is best to use the thumb across the lockbar, instead of keeping it in-line with the handle.

Using the pad or middle of the thumb, not the tip of it helps a lot too.

It is also a good idea to practice opening and closing it with both hands until one gets used to it.

It is quite possible to get used to opening and closing it one-handed in a safe and smooth manner.

I have never had a problem with opening and closing it. As I started out with other lockback designs, including the previous versions of the Voyagers.

Also, it is very important to pay attention to where the thumb is placed for opening.

As some of the opening systems, such as the Thumb-Plate and Thumb Disks can be hard to hit right and will definitely hurt if hit at the wrong angle!

Every folding knife has a learning curve to get used to, just like everything else is life does too.
 
Some Tri-Ads are stiff out of the box, but in my experience they "break in" with use quickly and get smoother over time.
It's a by-product of the design and it's one we are always working on improving.
We do not want to sacrifice that strength, but I understand it's a different functionality.

Leaving the knife half open for a few days usually helps a lot.
I also sometimes try this trick for a speedy fix - close the knife and depress the bar on the corner of a table or chair (with a towel or cloth over it) - this loosens up the spring tension some, but be careful not to overdo it.
Both of these options are quick-fixes, but I've found the knives that I allow to "break in" naturally over time and with use are smoother.

Also, the way you depress the lock bar makes a difference. I find I have to push right in the middle of that hole to get the best leverage. It's a little different to other lockback designs

I do suggest emailing or calling our customer service team before disassembling your knife.
They can be reached via customerservice@coldsteel.com or toll free at (800)255-4716

I hope that helps!
Thanks
 
I love my Hold Out III, but I can't close it with my thumb on the lock bar to save my life. Took me probably about a week of using it to figure out that if I turn it around, I can press the lock bar fairly easily with my index finger.
 
Honestly most of my knives broke in after use except one or two. For those two that didn't I took the leaf spring out of the knife, bent it a little, and replaced it. Worked for me.


I've also found that sometimes a lot of the rigidity your talking about has to do with the lockbar rubbing/sticking on the stop pin and blade tang rather than it being caused by the spring. Some tuff glide usually fixes that up in my experience.
 
Mod, GCG199, et al

I've owned my HO3 and HO2 for well over a year. I left the Code4 open at 90 degree angle on my desk for over 10 days and checked it a couple of times each day. In the end the Code4 lock didn't break in and I had to send it back (and pay a restock fee). My Hold Outs still aren't one hand closers, and I carry the HO3 really often. I love that knife. I'm hoping to like the MR1 even more (when it arrives).

I am not alone in having this problem; many many many others report this. I don't have weak thumbs. Maybe I will get lucky and get a "good" one, but I'm expecting to have to do something about the spring. If not, I have to send it back, or fix it myself. Its doesn't appear to me that Cold Steel is stepping up to address this shortcoming.

Moondrop and others have reported bending (plasticly deforming) their springs to fix them. I would prefer another way to keep the spring travel, while reducing the spring rate. I also fear bending the spring will harden the steel and reduce its cycle life, but that may be unfounded.
 
i found that polishing the tang and the lock bar face makes a huge difference. and also slightly bending the lock bar helps tremendously. just dont over do it or the lock wont be as tight . my code 4 is perfect now, i close it using demkos method. throwing the blode foward and catcing it with your forefinger while pressing the lock, then swinging the knife 180 and then finishing the close. its different but works fine.
 
DON'T DO THIS.
Take knife apart. Scribe location of spring on scale. Clamp spring in vice, bend slightly. Return spring to scale, check spring location(it should be approx 1/32" lower, no more).
Had the same issue with my Holdout III, my HO III, is sweet now. The spring material is forgiving, just don't use too much force. Have done this on many knives, have yet to screw one up.
Again, don't do this.
 
It's also worth noting the spot you push down on the lockbar has moved further away from the pivot on newer models. It was much closer to the index finger on older designs like the American Lawman and the Espada series, which made it easier to close one-handed.

I can open and close the large Espada with one hand all day long, while the Hold Out 3 is nearly impossible. I loosened the spring slightly on my Hold Out 1, but I realized the spring tension is also acting as the blade retention. Especially on the larger blades, the blade can literally just fall out like a gravity knife if the spring is too light.

My Ultimate Hunter was also a beast out of the box, but after cycling it a couple hundred times over a few days I can close it one handed now.

GCG199 is right in saying that it really helps to have your thumb across the lockbar instead of along it.

I do prefer that the lockbar cutout has moved further down the spine btw; I noticed I was slightly pressing down on the lockbar on my Espada in a full tight grip, causing a tiny bit of wiggle in the blade. Cold Steel seems to have cut away a bit of the lockbar on the XHP American Lawman to possibly prevent this issue.
 
the only tri-ad lock I have had trouble opening was on my hold out three.

I used the corner of my desk to unlock it and left it half open for a couple of days.

I then made a point of opening/closing it a couple of times.

The knife now opens up pretty easily.
 
gull wing said:
DON'T DO THIS.
Take knife apart. Scribe location of spring on scale. Clamp spring in vice, bend slightly. Return spring to scale, check spring location(it should be approx 1/32" lower, no more).
Had the same issue with my Holdout III, my HO III, is sweet now. The spring material is forgiving, just don't use too much force. Have done this on many knives, have yet to screw one up.
Again, don't do this.
Click to expand...

This is the type of response I was looking for. I knew that some Cold Steel aficionado had to have developed a detailed methodology for adjusting the spring on a triad lock.
 
Just checked tracking and my MR1 SP arrives this afternoon! Here's hoping I don't have to mess with the spring.
 
Well, my luck ran out.

I picked up an Aus-8A Recon 1, part-serrated Spear-Point, because the price was just too good to pass up at $45. It will make a good beater knife for various material-handling jobs at work.

It turns out that it had lock release problems—the first I have ever run into after having 20+ Cold Steel folders with the Tri-Ad Lock.

The lockbar wouldn't even go all the way down into the tang either.

So, I set it aside for a couple of hours and left it halfway open. It seems to be working alright now. But I will keep an eye on this one for sure.
 
I have a Recon 1 and a Hold Out III. I didn't have any problem opening the Recon with one had right out of the box. The HO3 took about a week of playing with it and now it too is a one handed knife. I guess that's the price we pay for having such a secure lock. There's never a free lunch.
 
Cold Steel,

If you want the lockbar 'teeth' to slam in just as hard but still have a lighter unlocking pressure then move the lockbar pivoting pin slightly closer to the pivot direction and change spring to a slightly softer spring. Bending moment calks will mean that for the same spring it'll have a higher force when the 'teeth' slam into the notch but changing to softer spring will result in same lock-teeth-pushing force. Added bonus is that with the lighter unlocking force required to depress the lockbar it'll also correspondingly need a slightly greater depth of depression which is a plus point against accidental unlocking under tight clenching. Try it out.
 
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Cotherion said:
Cold Steel,

If you want the lockbar 'teeth' to slam in just as hard but still have a lighter unlocking pressure then move the lockbar pivoting pin slightly closer to the pivot direction and change spring to a slightly softer spring. Bending moment calks will mean that for the same spring it'll have a higher force when the 'teeth' slam into the notch but changing to softer spring will result in same lock-teeth-pushing force. Added bonus is that with the lighter unlocking force required to depress the lockbar it'll also correspondingly need a slightly greater depth of depression which is a plus point against accidental unlocking under tight clenching. Try it out.
Click to expand...

Is that you, Archimedes? :)

- Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world.
 
Maybe if you believe Buddhism :)

Yeah basically playing around with the fulcrum and spring stiffness.
 
Some are smoother than others. My Mackinac Hunter was painfully stiff when I first got it. Now it is silky smooth, and boasts the best lockup of all my triads. A veritable "virtual" fixed blade. Maybe I will do a pass around, so you fellas can be envious.
 
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