Fixed Blade Concealed in a Backpack?

Swizzle

Swizzle

Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
315
just wondering if a fixed blade (doesn't matter what size) is considered concealed if carried inside a backpack.

i live in ca, but don't think that matters either. i have heard that "concealed" implies an ease of access, but don't know if i buy that or not.

anyone know?
 
If you're not doing anything illegal, no one will give you a hassle about what's in your backpack.

If you're doing something illegal, anything can give you trouble.
 
Grampa, that's a bit of a catch-22, isn't it...

My opinion, it would be considered concealed carry, and therefore illegal. Don't do it.
 
That would not be considered concealed carry, but instead transportation. Look at your state laws to determine if it would be legal or not to transport the knife in question. Or you could tell me your state and I will do it for you.
 
No, Im a wilderness EMT, Any blade can be fixed to yourself (visibly) or inside your pack out in the bush, that means you wont catch any heat for having anything less than a 20'' sword. (Thats CO. at least) but your able to transport any blade under 6'' without problem as long as its enclosed in something "(i.e. backpack, duffel bag, car) but anything over that has to have a zip-tie latching it to its sheath in the city.
 
Just for safety's sake, remember that state laws differ greatly. What may be legal in Phenox's state may very well be very illegal in yours. However, generally people are allowed to carry most anything when in the wilderness and hunting.
 
Reffy said:
Just for safety's sake, remember that state laws differ greatly. What may be legal in Phenox's state may very well be very illegal in yours. However, generally people are allowed to carry most anything when in the wilderness and hunting.
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reffy,

i'm in CA and haven't run across any transport laws (that I know of).

any help is much appreciated!

stew
 
Let's see if MORIMOTOM can help. He's knowledgeable when it comes to California knife laws.
 
not sure about CA...but concealed generally means "on the person" and "easy access".

If it's "in a container" it's not concealed. Just because you can't see it means it's concealed.

Again, it depends on the state's view. But for those reading from other states...generally speaking "in a bag" or "in a backpack" is not "easy access".

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

:D
 
Jurisdictions differ A LOT. For example, in New York City fixed or folder MUST BE concealed, i.e., out-of-sight.
 
As with all states, town's may have their own laws regarding knife carry. That being said, California State's knife law is some of the worst I've seen. None the less, you should be fine with the knife in your back pack. And that being said, if an officer pulls you over and asks for you step out of the car, or an officer stops you and asks if you have any weapons you will answer in the following way: "No, but I do have this utility knife in my backpack that may be construed as a weapon." Save yourself some trouble.

While I may not be a lawyer nor play a lawyer on TV I am a law student. With honors...at least this semester haha.
 
Keith_H said:
really? now to me that doesn't make sense!
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ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... ... ...

You got that right! NONE of the knife laws make sense. NONE of the laws regulating carry of objects make sense. Laws should regulate conduct. Don't kill, don't maim, don't wound, don't scratch people for frivolous or nefarious purposes.

The very fact that knife laws vary so much even in adjacent jurisdictions indicates that little rationale lies behind any given law, other than the natural tendency of authorities to want to exert and extend control.

Most of the laws on concealment derive from a claimed right not to be offended or intimidated. Which is ridiculous. We can have a right to defend ourselves against an overt threat, but not against an imagined threat.

Nevertheless, law being what it is, we must conform or suffer the inconvenience or consequences prescribed.
 
Reffy said:
As with all states, town's may have their own laws regarding knife carry. That being said, California State's knife law is some of the worst I've seen. None the less, you should be fine with the knife in your back pack. ....

While I may not be a lawyer nor play a lawyer on TV I am a law student. With honors...at least this semester haha.
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What about CA law is so terrible? You basically can't carry a concealed knife, or a knife hidden in an object, but there are few other restrictions. A knife in a sheath on your belt is by legal definition not concealed. A folding knife is by definition only prohibited concealed if it is kept in a locked open condition.

And the LA county law allows you to carry knives longer than 3" unconcealed if you have a lawful recreational reason.

Compare this to Texas...
(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by
being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto,
and poniard;
(D) sword; or
(E) spear.
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I can carry a Busse Battle Mistress in CA, but not in Texas.

So what states have great knife laws?

Where is the legal definition of "concealed"??
 
You guys, when discussing what's legal where, you need to look at the text of the law for the jurisdiction you're discussing. Comments like, "do this and you should be okay" are worse than useless. Likewise, laws for different states don't help answer the question. Here's the law:

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.
(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of
ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not
prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.
(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.
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Now, the knife in question does count as a dirk or dagger. The question is whether carrying concealed in a backpack counts as capable of ready use and carrying concealed upon your person. It's possible that in a backpack doesn't count as upon your person, and it's possible that in a backpack doesn't count as capable of ready use. That's a question I don't know the answer to, but at least now you have the right question. Perhaps Morimotom or R.W. Clark will know.
 
medusaoblongata said:
You guys, when discussing what's legal where, you need to look at the text of the law for the jurisdiction you're discussing. Comments like, "do this and you should be okay" are worse than useless. Likewise, laws for different states don't help answer the question. Here's the law
Click to expand...

Unfortunately your interpretation of the law is...well simply wrong in a practical sense. I don't want to get into a discussion on jurisprudence but I will say this: If you can tell me that you live in a state full of strict textualist judges and juries than your idea of what is "legal" is great. But because such is not the case virtually anywhere phrases such as "if you do x, y, or z you should be okay" are much more accurate than your black letter interpretation. However you are correct in that towns and cities can have their own ordinances regarding legal carry of knives. However, again speaking from a practical perspective, this does not really matter. When you get pulled over you are getting pulled not by a book of laws but a police officer. Most police officers have no idea what is legal to carry in their state, never mind their local jurisdiction! For instance, 100% of all cops that I have talked to in Boston did not know that my EDC was actually illegal because of new 9/11 law that made carry of a knife over 2.5 inches illegal in Boston (but not the rest of Mass).

Gator: I'm sorry you misunderstood my comment, I did not make what I was saying very clear. What I was referring to was the actual law it self. In truth cali does have some fairly relaxed laws, but they are in no way clear. What I was saying was that the construction of the law itself is awful. There are vague and worthless definitions, inconsistent language and as far as I could see little clarifying precedent. Law like that makes it very hard to determine what is legal and what is not, it may very well change the next time someone gets arrested. Hope that clarifies my statement. :)
 
Reffy said:
Gator: I'm sorry you misunderstood my comment, I did not make what I was saying very clear. What I was referring to was the actual law it self. In truth cali does have some fairly relaxed laws, but they are in no way clear. What I was saying was that the construction of the law itself is awful. There are vague and worthless definitions, inconsistent language and as far as I could see little clarifying precedent. Law like that makes it very hard to determine what is legal and what is not, it may very well change the next time someone gets arrested. Hope that clarifies my statement. :)
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I just wish CA would get rid of the prohibition against swordcanes. They are illegal to even possess! I've had to pass up some nice antiques...

So where is the definition of "concealed" in the law? I think CA law is good in that a knife in a belt sheath is defined as unconcealed, and folding knives in your pocket are defined as being NOT a "dirk or dagger".

There is precedent for at least this last part, where a guy was arrested for carrying a "concealed" Spyderco(?) knife. He got off.
 
Reffy said:
Unfortunately your interpretation of the law is...well simply wrong in a practical sense. I don't want to get into a discussion on jurisprudence but I will say this: If you can tell me that you live in a state full of strict textualist judges and juries than your idea of what is "legal" is great. But because such is not the case virtually anywhere phrases such as "if you do x, y, or z you should be okay" are much more accurate than your black letter interpretation. However you are correct in that towns and cities can have their own ordinances regarding legal carry of knives. However, again speaking from a practical perspective, this does not really matter. When you get pulled over you are getting pulled not by a book of laws but a police officer. Most police officers have no idea what is legal to carry in their state, never mind their local jurisdiction! For instance, 100% of all cops that I have talked to in Boston did not know that my EDC was actually illegal because of new 9/11 law that made carry of a knife over 2.5 inches illegal in Boston (but not the rest of Mass).

Gator: I'm sorry you misunderstood my comment, I did not make what I was saying very clear. What I was referring to was the actual law it self. In truth cali does have some fairly relaxed laws, but they are in no way clear. What I was saying was that the construction of the law itself is awful. There are vague and worthless definitions, inconsistent language and as far as I could see little clarifying precedent. Law like that makes it very hard to determine what is legal and what is not, it may very well change the next time someone gets arrested. Hope that clarifies my statement. :)
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Lynn and Salem, MA also have the same law as Boston. Revere might as well. When in these areas, my 4" Cold Steel "Voyager" folder goes with me, regardless. I removed the pocket clip and I carry it pivot-down in my right front trouser pocket. I have done this every day for the past 8 years and never had a problem. Obviously, stay out of government buildings and airports if you are carrying ANYTHING! Use your good common sense and you will be OK.
 
gator68 said:
I just wish CA would get rid of the prohibition against swordcanes. They are illegal to even possess! I've had to pass up some nice antiques...

So where is the definition of "concealed" in the law? I think CA law is good in that a knife in a belt sheath is defined as unconcealed, and folding knives in your pocket are defined as being NOT a "dirk or dagger".

There is precedent for at least this last part, where a guy was arrested for carrying a "concealed" Spyderco(?) knife. He got off.
Click to expand...

If any part of the knife is viewable from plan observation than it is not concaled. Wearing a large trench coat and having the knife on your belt would be considered to be concealed. For the most part I concluded that a knife clipped (if it can be seen) inside your pocket is not considered to be concealed. This is a major problem with knife law, no clear (or reasonable for that matter) definition for concealment with regards to pocket knives. [Rant]I dont understand why concealment even applies to fucking pocket knives. It's not a god damn gun, it's a pocket knife it goes into my pocket. Hence the size you idiots! I'm not concealing the god damn thing, I'm just carrying it in the most convenient way possible. Sweet Jesus what are law makers thinking. Do I need to purchase a shoulder holster and look like a psycho so that my knife is protruding into the face of everyone I meet so that I may be in compliance with such inane and pedantic laws? RAAAAAAWR. Vote Reffy For Congress, 2030[/Rant]

Such a case may or may not be precedent for concealment. Look specifically at the reason for dismissal, did it speak on concealment or did it (as I assume) speak on intent?
 
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