Fixed Blade Prices

A

ASBOB

Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
1,304
Recently I had a couple of small fixed blades made for me by different knifemakers.

They were wonders. Good steel, exhilarating fit and finish, balance that fit my hand better than any glove. I can’t describe what it means to have a conversation on sharpness end with, “Okay, I understand what you want. I’ll grind your blade right now.”

At the same time, I find many production knives costing 2-3 times as much.

So my question is: what accounts for the much higher prices? One factor is handle material, the use of stag over micarta. But that isn’t the whole difference.

I’m not trying to be a troll here. I’m sure the prices on those production knives are justified. I’d just like to know more about what goes into them, given the quality I’ve experienced from custom makers.

Thank you for helping me learn more about knives.
 
Brand recognition, name recognition of the custom maker. That's it. All knifemakers have to start from the bottom, too. The production companies have marketing departments to promote their brand. Individuals don't. So they have to start be selling their wares at places like knife shows, BF, etc, at lower prices than their counterparts who are better known until they have a brand that is recognized. Watched the Knifemakers' section here and you see it every day. It's the way of business.

BTW, before everyone pummels you, you should search this topic and you'll find a bunch of threads about this.
 
Thank you for the knowledge and for the tip.

I guess my google fu is weak. I checked out fixed blade prices on bladeforums and didn't find anything relevant. Can you suggest any other search terms to use?

My thanks.
 
Cost of operations. Smaller operations do not have even a fraction of the regulation, and compliance issues a large manufacturer does.
 
TriviaMonster said:
Are you talking about a particular company like Busses or Randall?
Click to expand...

Irrelevant. I think the OP was saying he had a few "custom" knives done at a fraction of some production blade costs and wondered why he could perceive a superior product at a cheaper price.
 
TriviaMonster said:
Are you talking about a particular company like Busses or Randall?
Click to expand...

ron_m80 said:
Irrelevant. I think the OP was saying he had a few "custom" knives done at a fraction of some production blade costs and wondered why he could perceive a superior product at a cheaper price.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The only domestic knives I've seen where production knives run much higher dollar-wise than custom is on brands like those mentioned.

I have yet to spend more on a production blade then on a custom and I've yet to have a custom that was superior to my production knives. At least on small to medium blades. My experience has been the opposite of the OP's.
 
I paid $100 + for each of my knives. When I get my A. G. Russell catalog in the mail, there are production fixed blades $250-$350. I have always felt that Mr. Russell strives to give his customers the best deals possible, so I don't believe there are high markups here at all. Then what causes the differences in price?

Since I don't feel anyone is charging unfair prices, there must be legitimate factors I don't know about or understand yet. That's what I'm trying to learn about. I know a lot more about folders than fixed blades, and I'd like to find out more. Ron-m80 got it in #6.
 
Or, to put it a different way:

I can buy a pretty good folder from standard knife companies for $100-$150. When I've bought custom folders from solid, but less well known makers they run $250-$300. That makes sense to me.

On fixed blades, it seems like the reverse. That's what I'm trying to understand.
 
There are not a lot of ways to manufacture folders "better, faster, stronger..." than a craftsmen would assemble a quality folder. So the difference is negligible.

The answer to your question, I think, is in the difference between the business models.

Using the blacksmith method to forge steel into form, HT it, and temper it, fit it with stock and materials that have been building up over years of knifemaking is much easier to do than produce a single knife through the start to finish typical large business operation. I really think it is as simple as that.

It is only a circumstantial point, but when working with a maker, you are enjoying a bit of artistry, and definitely craftsmanship in that product. Artists like their work, that is why they do it. Production work, is set up to turn a profit (like you, I believe it is a fairly honest price point) for the company. While that profit does/ should center around a good product, the craftsmanship, and artistry will likely be missing, as well as the personal contact with the maker.

-Ron
 
I can only speak about fixed blades, because that's all I currently make. Folders really are a different ballgame.

An independent maker can indeed "Go grind your blade right now" or try a new steel, whereas a manufacturer has to buy car-loads of steel at a time and tool up to run hundreds or thousands of the same knife just to break even. There's simply no way a bigger company could offer the dozens of options a handmade guy or gal can, and be profitable.

Indies don't have anywhere near the overhead, employees or office staff, or ad campaigns to pay for. Nor do the bulk of our profits get siphoned off the top by an owner or shareholders (often overseas). That doesn't generally translate to million-dollar mansions and early retirements, but it does give us some leeway.

What handmade knifemakers/bladesmith do have is passion, a sincere desire to provide the best, and most importantly the time, wherewithal, and personal attention to make one-off blades specifically for you - not for a focus group or what the marketing guy thinks will be hot this year.

Go custom! :)
 
The last time I paid 100+ for production fixed blade was for Fallkniven F1: it obviously included dealer's mark up and tax. And I am pretty sure I have got it cheaper than you could get VG10 laminated blade knife of similar quality with a sheath from a knife-maker. Another knife above 100 mark was s30v dagger from Gerber: there were some F&F issues obvious to me, but again overall there was nothing in the same ballpark that I could get from a custom knife maker from same materials and similar level of F&F. I actually can not think about a single production knife that I have got that was at sort of close price/quality combination that I see in custom knives. Am I so cheap that this thread does not even seem to make sense to me? Could you please share pictures of your knives and the ones that you compare them with: just to understand what exactly you are talking about?
 
I think it is VERY possible to find custom makers who can make and sell a knife at the same price with better quality than high end production knives. I know that because I make them... in my not-so humble opinion.

With a custom maker you can get exactly what you want and are willing to pay for and don't have to settle for anything less like you would with production knives.

By the way, this isn't a sales pitch because I'm busy until mid-fall.
 
Re: Pez's inquiry:

Here's a production knife at $300.

http://www.canalstreetcutlery.com/ddrpohu.html

Here's a custom knife I got for $120.

http://www.blindhorseknives.com/brumbylite.htm


Important note: I an categorically NOT challenging either price, and consider both completely legitimate. I'm just trying to learn about what goes into a production fixed blade at this level.

Mods: not trying to sell either knife. Just responding to a request for the comparison
 
ASBOB said:
Re: Pez's inquiry:

Here's a production knife at $300.

http://www.canalstreetcutlery.com/ddrpohu.html

Here's a custom knife I got for $120.

http://www.blindhorseknives.com/brumbylite.htm


Important note: I an categorically NOT challenging either price, and consider both completely legitimate. I'm just trying to learn about what goes into a production fixed blade at this level.

Mods: not trying to sell either knife. Just responding to a request for the comparison
Click to expand...

I wouldn't consider the BHK a custom knife by far. They are essentially a production company. Just not as high production in knives as most other big name brands.
 
Thanks. I'm learning already.

A better example: I got a similar knife to the Brumby Lite from JK Knives for about the same price.
 
Price isn't really a standard. They vary a lot depending on the maker and quality. There is also a debate amongst some people that if a knifemaker has various models he makes is that really a custom knife? It wasn't made to your specifications so who knows?

In that case I just call them hand made.
 
ASBOB said:
Re: Pez's inquiry:

Here's a production knife at $300.

http://www.canalstreetcutlery.com/ddrpohu.html

Here's a custom knife I got for $120.

http://www.blindhorseknives.com/brumbylite.htm


Important note: I an categorically NOT challenging either price, and consider both completely legitimate. I'm just trying to learn about what goes into a production fixed blade at this level.

Mods: not trying to sell either knife. Just responding to a request for the comparison
Click to expand...

Thanks!
The first one does not look like a perfect example of production knife either.
I suspect that both knives were produced using not too different production methods, both with significant share of manual labour (probably higher absolute number of man-hours for the first fancier one) and with similar production numbers - in fact they could be even lower for the more expensive "production" model. So I do not really see any inconsistency in this example.
 
ASBOB said:
Re: Pez's inquiry:

Here's a production knife at $300.

http://www.canalstreetcutlery.com/ddrpohu.html

Here's a custom knife I got for $120.

http://www.blindhorseknives.com/brumbylite.htm


Important note: I an categorically NOT challenging either price, and consider both completely legitimate. I'm just trying to learn about what goes into a production fixed blade at this level.

Mods: not trying to sell either knife. Just responding to a request for the comparison
Click to expand...
I think you got your answer pretty clearly in the following posts. Larger manufacturers have to buy equipment, steel, machines, pay wages, health insurance for employees, shop lease, taxes, all sorts of expenses that a one man shop does not. You seem to want to hear a different answer though.

I've read some of the manufacturers here indicate what some of their expenses are, and they are high dollar expenses (already mentioned above). If you are looking for a specific company to explain why or provide profit margins, then you might be waiting for a while. Those things are not exactly considered forum fodder and open for discussion. I do imagine that production items are priced according to what financial researchers/analysts determine would be a fair price.

james terrio said:
I can only speak about fixed blades, because that's all I currently make. Folders really are a different ballgame.

An independent maker can indeed "Go grind your blade right now" or try a new steel, whereas a manufacturer has to buy car-loads of steel at a time and tool up to run hundreds or thousands of the same knife just to break even. There's simply no way a bigger company could offer the dozens of options a handmade guy or gal can, and be profitable.

Indies don't have anywhere near the overhead, employees or office staff, or ad campaigns to pay for. Nor do the bulk of our profits get siphoned off the top by an owner or shareholders (often overseas). That doesn't generally translate to million-dollar mansions and early retirements, but it does give us some leeway.

What handmade knifemakers/bladesmith do have is passion, a sincere desire to provide the best, and most importantly the time, wherewithal, and personal attention to make one-off blades specifically for you - not for a focus group or what the marketing guy thinks will be hot this year.

Go custom! :)
Click to expand...

ron_m80 said:
There are not a lot of ways to manufacture folders "better, faster, stronger..." than a craftsmen would assemble a quality folder. So the difference is negligible.

The answer to your question, I think, is in the difference between the business models.

Using the blacksmith method to forge steel into form, HT it, and temper it, fit it with stock and materials that have been building up over years of knifemaking is much easier to do than produce a single knife through the start to finish typical large business operation. I really think it is as simple as that.

It is only a circumstantial point, but when working with a maker, you are enjoying a bit of artistry, and definitely craftsmanship in that product. Artists like their work, that is why they do it. Production work, is set up to turn a profit (like you, I believe it is a fairly honest price point) for the company. While that profit does/ should center around a good product, the craftsmanship, and artistry will likely be missing, as well as the personal contact with the maker.

-Ron
Click to expand...
 
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