Fixed blade rigging knife steel

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Dec 13, 2005
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I am about to make an offshore rigging knife that will primarily be used to cut rope. Some of the rope will be up to 3" in diameter so the knife will also be used with a mallet. I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with this type of blade and could recommend a proven blade geometry and steel type for this task. I was considering using cpm-s35vn. Any input would be appreciated.
 
Good luck John, post pictures when you settle on a design!
A mallet? wow.

I've tried three times to make a rigging knife. Only one has completed successfully and I've not really been happy with the shapes.

ETA: S35VN sounds like a great choice.
 
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S35VN would be good, but I think M390 would be better. Although I prefer a serrated edge for cutting rope, it wouldn't be good for use with a mallet - of course, if a serrated edge is sharp you might not need a mallet.
Tim
 
Well, another fixed rigger fan! I am a rigger (not full time anymore) but I sail professionally as well. I had a custom made for me last year and it works very well. There are some specific design criteria, but I'm sure you have the gist of it. Mine is made from 154CM, 4"+ blade and .227 thick. I have a toothy edge on it, with a 30* bevel. For any working knife I always consider how am I going to sharpen it in the field (or afloat), am I going to have a guided system and time to sit down and work th edge as best as possible, or am I going to have just a few minutes and a small hand stone. Am I going to be stuck if I lose my stone?

Here is a pic of mine, chisel ground and stabilized curly teak scales by Daniel Fairly Knives.

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If you have any specific questions, feel free to shoot me an email. The only reason I didn't make my own is because I don't have the tools to HT anything other than 1080/1084. But I still plan to make my own. Also, I can give you some ideas about a marlingspike to go with your knife.


Fair winds and following seas!

-Xander
 
Hey Jonny, I used to work on Offshore supply vessels in the Gulf of Mexico so I have had tons of experience in cutting all types of line. As far as small line any type of sheepsfoot will work but for big stuff and using a mallet you're gonna be better off with lots of clearance beneath the handle like a Chef's knife. I always found GOOD serrations far better than a mallet though. As far as steel I would highly consider the end users ability to re-sharpen. If they have the inclination and proper equipment I would take Stacy's advice and use 3V. If not I would use anything tough and easy to sharpen. Just my .02.
 
Thank you very much guys for the responses. You all provided a lot of information here for me to digest.

Xander, that is a nice looking knife.

I have never worked with 3V but this seems like a good project to get acquainted with it.

-John
 
Johnny, I emailed you back. I would really like to see what you have in mind and I will email you some other questions.

What Darrin said about sharpening is very true. Ease of sharpening is paramount, not necessarily a soft steel, but a simple sharpening to achieve good results. I've had working knives in D2 and trying to sharpen while in the middle of a large project if it needed it meant time lost. I'm happy with the 154CM, good balance. I have a pretty complete list of specific design features I require in a good working rigging knife. I'm curious how my criteria matches up with what you have planned.


-Xander
 
Great suggestions above, I agree.


One thing to consider is that carbides can really help with rope cutting on a long term basis. That wouldn't be my main focus when choosing a steel but is interesting.

I'd probably go with 5/32" steel as a minimum

You probably want a full flat grind or a light convex

Stainless or something close... although with maintenance anything could work

3" rope would need a big blade in an emergency... we carried a machete on the boat

I like a toothy edge for rope

Sheepsfoot is a classic profile for a rigger


I hope this helps!
 
Xander, i got your email, thank you for the additional information regarding marlin spikes. As far as design criteria, my customer wants our camp knife profile with a modified sheepsfoot tip. He is concerned about the ease of sharpening but wants a stainless steel. He does not want serrations.

What is the relative difficulty of sharpening 3V vs s35vn with a diamond stone?

Daniel, Thank you for the additional information it is helpful. I know how to get a toothy edge in the shop but once it is in the field (or at sea) do you have any advice to give to the end user on how to maintain a toothy edge if they just have a stone available?

Thank you,
-John
 
I can't comment much on sharpening those two steels, but I like a steel that is able to be sharpened with #400 sandpaper in a working rigging knife. I often have that on a job and can take 2-3 minutes to sharpen it up. Also, if needed I use the botton of a coffee cup (the unglazed rim) as a ceramic hone. Even a #220 edge is prfectly acceptable for rope work.

I have been considering getting some 13C26 or AEB-L to make a rigging knife, they have good resuls around 60Rc and at 13%cr should do fine for corrosion resistance. Basically a razor steel that takes a laser sharp edge with moderate work.


-Xander
 
Xander,

I've got a perpetually on hold rigging knife project for an Australian guy, and I'm thinking about starting over (or finishing this one and starting again for something better). I'd love to see that summary of design criteria. A marlinspike is part of the project too, so I'm interested to see what you have to say about that as well.

I think mine is going to end up engraved and prettified, but I'd still like to give him an optimal design.

Thanks,

Travis Fry
 
....I'd love to see that summary of design criteria. A marlinspike is part of the project too, so I'm interested to see what you have to say about that as well....
Cool project and info from everyone.
Xander, How 'bout posting that info up here? I'm sure many of us would appreciate your experience and wisdom. :)
 
Travis, I have received several emails asking the same thing, so I will just put my thoughts on rigging knives in here.

First off, I have worked as a freelance rigger since about '98-'99. Everything from simple stuff on a pram to being the Bosuns mate aboard the T.S. Californian. Modern race boats and vintage cruisers. I race sailboats at a professional level as well. These features are just a few things I have found to work well and help avoid common pitfalls of mass market knives. These are my opinions, and you know what they say about opinions...

Blade: Sheeps foot or some derivation of it, nothing to pointy. Sails are under tremendous load and one may have to cut a loaded line near a jib or stays'l, they can litterally explode if cut when loaded. I know, Ive seen it happen. 3.5" to 5" blade length is common, personally I like 3.75" to 4.25" blade. Taller blade profiles are nice, this goes with the handle features below. The spine should be on the thick side for the size knife, 0.188" to 0.250" is common. Many people still use a mallet to get a clean cut on thick line, myself included. Flat grinds and hollow grinds seem to be the most popular. Convex or "appleseed" grinds dont work too well.

Edge: A smooth, continuous belly is nice, but if you like a flat edge section you can have it in the back 1/3 -1/2 of the blade. The belly doesn't have to be drastic, infact too round of a belly can make the knife slip when cutting tough rope. Edge geometries should be fairly standard, 30* to 35* inclusive works well. I like a #400 edge, but #180 and #220 work very well also. To echo what Darrin said above, an easy to sharpen steel is important. #180, #220 and #400 are common grits of sandpaper and are used when working on boats pretty frequently, so having a steel and edge geometry that can be sharpened by this is nice. Not having to take 10 minutes to sharpen a knife in the middle of a job keeps the boss happy.

Handle: Simple shapes are king here. Something without sharply defined finger grooves makes it easy to control with gloved, or cold stiff hands. Think of the puukko, it it designed to be used with mittens and still have control. Knuckle clearance is paramount! Much like a chef's knife, which this knife may be called on to do. When pounding a blade through 3.5" rope, you really dont want your knuckles to be the first thing to contact the chopping block. keeping the butt of the handle above the cutting edge should also be considered. Tang construction is up to the maker, I have seen and used full, stick and hidden tang knives equally well. Grippy materials should be considered, but that is up to the users environment. Lanyard holes should be no smaller than 0.250". A .250" OD with 0.020" wall is fine since that is a common size available. Trying to fit a frayed end of 3/16" line (4-5mm) through a small lanyard hole just doesn't work well. Same goes for shackles. Please be sure that the lanyard hole is outside of the normal grip position and close enough to the end of the knife to use a shackle if desired. Exposed tang is optional, much like camp knives. I use mine to pry and hammer, some don't.

Sheath: Kydex, I feel was designed for such knives. Unaffected by marine environments, zero maintenance, and good retention. But leather can and does work just fine with more maintenance. Be sure it has drainage! Many Kydex benders take a small dowel and lay it in line with the spine continuing from the tip to create a hole at the point of a folded "taco" style sheath. I like my sheaths to ride a little high on my hip, this keeps it out of the way when sitting, or when I have a harness on and working aloft. A slight tilt forward helps with deployment. For reference, the ricasso of my rigger (shown earlier in this thread) sits at the top of my belt.


The Marlingspike

Also spelled Marling spike, marlin spike, marlinspike or simply spike.

An excerpt from The Complete Riggers Apprentice, by Brion Toss. (This book coupled with the A.B.o.K is the go to reference material)

"The Marlingspike
All of rigging-right up through its most abstract engineering complications-is based on priciples and procedures relating to this tool. It is used for pulling seizings and lashings tight, making splices, loosening jammed knots, and tightening shackles. It's also called on to function as a crowbar, wrench, hammer, weapon, and musical instrument (ting!), so it pays to have a good one. By "good" I mean that it:

- Is made of smooth, hard steel, either carbon or stainless;
- has a long taper and small flattened point for easier splicing, prying, and such; and
- has a lanyard hole for tying the tool to your belt or rigging bag so that when you are working aloft, it does not accidentally become a weapon (thud) or a musical instrument (ting! Splash!).

Length depends on the job at hand and individual taste; 6 to 10 inches is a good range for shipboard use. Many people like the folding rigger's knife-spike combination, but I dont; a spike is too often needed in a hurry when you don't have both hands free."


For commercial spikes, the C.S. Osborne brand are the industry standard for working spikes. Tapers and lengths specifically designed for wire rope, but work well for fiber rope also. The following information was analyzed and compiled by the late Master Rigger Nick Benton. Design specifics for making your own should be based around these proportional dimensions (based on the diameter of wire you'll be working with). "X" represents the diameter wire intended. Overall length should be 24X, starting at the point; duck taper (ovoid cross section) 2X long to 3/8X diameter, then 18X length shank taper to 1 1/8X diameter, finally a 4X straight shank finished with a stout head like a nail of 1 5/8X diameter. So for 3/8 inch wire the spike would be 9 inches long and 9/64 inch at the widest part of the duck taper. Make sense?!

Myself, I rarely work with wire rope anymore. I don't use a traditional spike, mine is square in cross section and does not have a head. I find this to be a wonderful tool for my uses. This proves that you don't have to stay inside the traditional box when making such tools, hopefully this information helps you make a knife in your style that will work very well for its intended purposes.

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-Xander
 
I just realized I forgot to comment about guards on rigging knives. They seem to be a toss-up as far as being liked or not. I have seen Master Riggers use knives with traditional guards (edge side only) and I have seen them without. I guess it boils down to personal preference of the user. I do not like them on my riggers.


-Xander
 
I don't know anything about rigging knives. Can't help you there, design-wise.

I do know a bit about alloys that can retain a workable keen edge (not necessarily tree-topping sharp, or even clean-shaving sharp, but plenty sharp enough to cut coarse, fibrous materials like rope and cardboard) throughout a long days' or weeks' work, without constant maintenance. D2 is deservedly famous for this... it takes a good (not "lousy" as some folks say) edge, and keeps it a long time (but not "forever").

We can do much better than D2, though.

Vanadium is your friend. 2% V or more gets you into alloys that not only have fine grain, but also have a goodly amount of very fine, very hard carbides that are a boon to tough knives that need to cut a lot of stuff, for a long time.

Steels like CPM-3V, S35VN and Elmax have enough V carbides to resist wear pretty well, and are tough enough that they can be ground to a thin, acute edge without fear of major chipping. (D2... not so much.) Even when it's too dull to shave peachfuzz off a baby's bottom, that keen edge will still be acute, and working very well on coarser tasks.

These same properties make high-vanadium alloys much more easy to maintain than is commonly supposed... if they're ground for high-performance in the first place. Yeah, they're wear-resistant, so diamonds are a good idea for honing. But since we can grind them so thin, there's less material to remove to get them back to a fine edge.
 
Thanks for all the additional information guys, much appreciated.

Xander, great writeup. Thanks for taking the time to put that together.

-John
 
A fid is just another splicing tool that is in the sailors ditty bag. It is specifically for fibr rope. Fid are commonly made from wood, ivory, whale bone, an such. Not needed to use steel since they are designed to work with fiber rope, often having a steeper taper, being shorter and fatter.


-Xander
 
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