Flags of our Fathers

Ad Astra

Ad Astra

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Jul 30, 2004
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Anyone else seen Clint Eastwood's (and Spielberg's) latest?

(+) Visually, it's really well done. It jumps back and forth in time sucessfully, integrating well-done battle scenes with the homefront. It's not really a war flick but the story of the flag-raising photo and the aftermath of it.

(+) Lots of Garands, M-1 Carbines, (Nambus :( ), amazing CGI scenes, especially looking down on the fleet.

(+/-) It's got the 'horror of war' thing going on and depicts the three service members, survivors of the six Mt. Suribachi flag-raisers, who are dragged into a war bond tour as mostly unwilling front men for less-than-intrerested-in-truth dept of treasury official. Anti-American message there? Not sure. Pima ndn Hayes, Gagnon and medic Bradley are the "heroes of Iwo Jima" :barf: everywhere they go, to their own disgust.

The three do not go on to lead happy lives. And poor Hayes. As someone who has struggled with alcohol I could relate to his lost tomorrows, but without the horrors he lived through. I will light smoke for this man tonight. :(

It's a powerful movie, and well-done. Not the "Private Ryan" of the Pacific, as suggested. It stands on its own as simply what happened that day in Februray, 1945, and afterward.


Mike
 
Thanks for the review, Mike.

I was reading an article recently from a photographer who's done a lot of war-related photos.

He said something like, "Any honest war picture will be an anti-war picture."

I feel this to be true. There may be more "righteous" wars than others, but there are NO "good" wars. :(

John
 
Thanks, all. It's not "The Sands of Iwo Jima," for sure. No glamour. Some; no, lots of disturbing scenes.

The awfulness of it is more the real by the fact it's a true story and every person in it is a real person. Just saw the History Channel's coverage; makes the movie seem even more realistic. Clint & Steve get an "A" for homework.

If you see it, pay attention to the sound: seems like you can tell direction and type of fire.

Can't believe we gave it back to Japan in 1968; just seems wrong somehow.

Certainly we bought it with the most valuable thing we had. :(


Mike
 
This may be a good time to relate a moving story on the subject. I've known several fine men who fought in the Pacific theater. My wife's grandpa was a prisoner of war & saw the mushroom cloud, and lived only through pure luck on many occasions. The fighting itself, executing half the prisoners enroute to the camp, malaria in camp that was treated by the doctor whose life he saved, the fallout from our bomb, and on and on. My maternal grandparents were both marines at the time- grandma's name is on the monument in Arlington to women in the war. One of my grandma's neighbors back in Pennsylvania survived the Bataan death march, carrying a buddy over his shoulder for the last 7 or 10 miles, after being bayonetted twice himself...

But this story is more pertinent to the topic. My dad's best friend's wife's grandfather fought on Iwo Jima. We met him at their kid's birthday party, and dad sat and talked with him for quite some time. He walks with a limp and a cane, and specially made shoes, since one of his legs is a few inches shorter than the other. A Japanese machine gun bullet removed a section of his femur, and a few more left their mark on his arm & shoulder. He was a machine gunner himself, and watched his buddies die around him. He only lived because he happened to fall behind a small rock that protected his head. He said when they stormed the island, they'd go up and down the hills, and the Japanese would hide & wait until our men had run past and open fire on them from behind as they slowly struggled up the next hill. I forget the numbers exactly, but at the time he was wounded he had only been in the service for like three months. He spent more than twice as long in the hospital.

As luck would have it, one of my best friends was currently a marine stationed in Okinawa. I related the above to him via email, and we hatched a plan. The next time my buddy got some leave time, he traveled to Iwo Jima, and brought along an American flag and a mason jar. He climbed up to the top of mount Sirubachi (sp?) where the marines raised the flag at that imfamous battle, and affixed his American flag to some tent poles he'd brought along. He flew the flag over the mountain, and got a picture of him standing with it. He then used the jar to collect some black sand from the beach, and shipped these items to me with a letter & pictures.

My dad delivered these to his friend's wife, and she in turn gave them to her grandfather the next time she went up north to visit him.

By all accounts he was deeply moved.

He wrote a long letter of thanks to my friend in Okinawa, saying it was the best present he'd ever received. I was concerned that he may not want to be reminded of his experiences in the war, and that the gifts would backfire, but it turned out great.

Several months later my friend was back in the States on leave, and wanted to meet the elder warrior. He drove up to the man's house just as the ambulance was pulling out of the driveway, taking him to the hospital. I haven't heard how he's doing lately, and these men won't be with us for much longer.
 
Thanks, possum.

I would have liked to see that sand. Black, volcanic stuff; gave our vehicles fits. Weapons, too. :(


Mike
 
Thanks for telling that Possum. My grandad and three of his brothers fought in the Pacific. We have newspaper clippings of my Uncle Murray's battlefield comission. He carried some of his platoon out of harms way. Funny thing, and rare too, he fought with his brother in the same unit. I hear thats pretty rare. LC, the younger brother, didn't get a commision. I was a kid when those two men died. My grandad is still kicking around. His brother Ray fought in Europe and stormed five beaches before getting hit by a mortar. I am very proud of them.
 
I generally don't go to war movies. I like to "escape" from reality when I go to the movies, but I might have to go see this one. The book (not the screenplay) was co-authored by my sister's good friend Ron Powers. Really nice guy. Also wrote a good biography of Mark Twain not too long ago.
 
Ira Hayes did not deal with fame well. A lot of native americans come back from conflict and sink into what poor reservations do anyway- destruction.

As most of you know, the real 'flag' of that campaign was small and raised during combat- the knoll was unsecured. Someone decided they needed a bigger flag later and that's the scene we know today.
But the effect of the first flag raising, was electric- boats shrieked the sirens off shore, and cheering was heard everywhere. If I recall, the famous photographer who shot the original flag raising was killed in action.

Real luck of the draw- the fake flag raising becomes a symbol and makes the career of another photographer.

The story gets wilder- the flags got stolen in military hands. I'm not sure what they have today on memorial.

Anyone wanna buy a flag?

>>>>>>

Everything Eastwood touches in the latter stages of his career becomes gold.
Since the Unforgiven he's not missed a step.

Now, if I can persuade Mel Gibson to do another Mad Max I'll die almost sorta happy. I don't ask much- not Shakespeare, not Dostoyeski; just good old fashioned American/Australian SF cheese.

munk
 
Ad Astra said:
I would have liked to see that sand. Black, volcanic stuff; gave our vehicles fits. Weapons, too. :(
Click to expand...

Truth be told, my friend actually brought a couple flags and sand sample containers. ;) In fact, I think he initially collected some of the sand in actual sand bags, and hiked back with like 40 pounds of the stuff. Not every day you get that kind of oppotunity, thought he. He sent some to lots of his friends & family. Thus, I also have a flag that was flown atop Mount Sirubachi, and a good sized ziplock bag of the black sand.

If you're serious, I'd be happy to send you some of it. Drop me an email.
 
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