flat-ground bevels, scandi, etc.

Burchtree

Burchtree

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Not sure what you'd call them on a tanto, but I guess a scandi grind is the best explanation. Anyway, I'd like to try some flat-ground bevels on some tantos and and looking for any tips or tricks from you fine fellows. :D (hop on in here Roger. ;) )
 
I'm all confused then. I always thought a saber grind was a high hollow that was rounded at the top of the bevel then flattened out towards the edge. The scandi grind (I thought I read it somewhere, but who knows :) ) was some zero-edge grind where the user could use the whole bevel to sharpen.

Anyway -- any tips for a saber grind? :D
 
get a tool rest, find the angle you like - hold the steel against it until you reach middle (both sides, alternating, etc.) then finish by hand.

Oversimplified, but it's the right idea.


The correct term is indeed saber grind - which means half the blade is ground (whether it has zero-edge bevel or not).

I usually put a micro bevel on mine. It's a pain to have to sharpen the entire bevel. That said, it's the first grind that comes to mind whenever there are young people involved.....makes teaching sharpening very easy.

Incidentally, the saber grinds I've seen on scandinavian knives have the bevel terminating closer to the tip (compared to more traditional hunting/bowie knives here in the USA).


Pic:

hanka2.jpg



vs.

stag-hunting-knife-1011.jpg


(okay....maybe not the best example....but hopefully you get the idea....see how the bevel in the first pic tapers, while this one is even throughout?)
 
Dan that's a good example. I've noticed that before but never been able to articulate it. Now letting my own biases flow, I know the grind line can add a dramatic effect to the looks of a knife but the steeper bevel must be harder to get and keep sharp. And it would get harder and harder to sharpen over time because the edge would get thicker faster... The only alternative would be to use thinner stock. All this makes me want to do full bevels on everything... :rolleyes: Talk about limiting myself! :D

Michael I've done this a couple of times and Dan's suggestion works. Bob Engath talked about clamping a guide on the toolrest to ensure the bevels come out even. I haven't tried that but if I was going to do it much I sure would.
 
anyone got an image of a grinding guide? I have freehanded everything and I wish I was better than I am. Dan....how is that corian treating you?
 
ddavelarsen said:
but the steeper bevel must be harder to get and keep sharp. And it would get harder and harder to sharpen over time because the edge would get thicker faster...
Click to expand...

Actually, Dave I believe that it won't get thicker over time. I don't think those knives are supposed to have a double bevel (one that you see and another one on the edge). When you sharpen the entire bevel is laid flat on the stone. So the thickness never changes. The blade just becomes more narrow! Japanese swords are also done that way.

Unless I'm mistaken - again.

Steve
 
Tool rest eh? Hmm....gonna have to try and find that thing.
 
Burchtree said:
Tool rest eh? Hmm....gonna have to try and find that thing.
Click to expand...

Shows a steady hand by friend ;)
 
with proper blade taper, it won't be a problem. Also, with no secondary bevel, won't be a problem.

Wish Rob made an adjustable tool rest for the KMG....(adj. angle, I mean)


Brian - it's collecting dust right now.....metal dust, that is....:D

I have a project for it, though...I'll keep you posted.
 
Daniel Koster said:
Wish Rob made an adjustable tool rest for the KMG....(adj. angle, I mean)
Click to expand...

I have the rotatable flat platen. I rotate it to an angle and grind my front andles of my handles on it. It wont rotate well enough for putting bevels in steel though. Might just have to dray up and weld a guide......but I doubt I'll get to it.

Off to the new building. ALOT of work ahead of me :mad: :D
 
Steve and Dan, thanks for the reminder about the "no secondary bevel" aspect of the scandi grind. You are right of course. And naturally, this is one I'm reluctant to attempt as it seems like it'd be rather difficult to do well. Here's hoping no one asks me to! :D

I bet if someone asked him nice Rob would be more than happy to come up with a tilting tool rest. Then, when I get around to ordering my own, I'll have another great addition for it. ;)
 
Most of the real Scandinavian blades I have seen: Helle, Brusletto, Kay Vikstrom, Strande, etc have had shallow hollow grinds that go to a zero edge from 1/3 to 1/2 way across the blade.
 
to understand any of this. But this I know: over any given blade "width", grinding ony half way up ( call it what you like; sabre, scandi ect...) the blade produces an exceptionally rough and tough blade but the sacrifice is in "keenness" for lack of beter nomenclature. The final cutting edge angle is steep and that's that. Remember that true Japanese blades are sharpened right to the edge!; that bevel angle from "blade center" IS the (final sharpened) edge. This is TONS of work.... (not for a man seduced by wine....) ;)

the incorrigable mitchell
 
Michael,

Gosh, I darn near missed this whole thread. I call what I think you are asking about a Scandinavian grind. It is because that is what I was taught it is. Regardless, saber, whatever, do yourself a favor and forget tool rests and jigs. If you want to learn it learn it free hand. Anyhow, take it as far up as you or your customer wishes and grind it to a zero edge. There will be no secondary bevel unless the end user later decides to hone one himself. In grinding the first couple I suggest starting with a pretty fine belt (say about 220 grit) and taking all the time a day permits if that is what it takes, and do it free hand. I scribe one line for edge before beginning the bevel grind. It is a dead center scribe right down the middle of the edge length. Your bevel should be consistantly as wide from ricasso to tip.

I grind mine flat. If an oil quench steel you should leave it a bit thick at the edge before quench and finish the bevel grinding after heat treat. If a deep hardening steel that you do not liquid quench you can grind it to shaving sharp before quench.

RL
 
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