Flat saber.. teach me..

Robdude

Robdude

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As you guys know, Busse goes with flat saber for most their blades (high flat saber for wtf)..what would the primary reason be for zeroing in on that grind. is this for the look of the blade an what looks good for that knife design? Does flat saber have a strength advantage? Does it chop good? What say you?
 
The flat saber is going to have much more strength than a hollow grind because there is more material behind the cutting edge to support it. Compare similar knives, one with a hollow grind knife one with a saber grind, measure back from the cutting edge 1/16" and compare the steel thickness at that point. You'll see how different they really are.

This is the same reason for a primary disadvantage of the saber grind, even more so over a full flat grind. Since the edge is thicker as you sharpen away blade material that the cutting edge gets thicker. Hollow grind is superior in that respect.

For a chopper or hard use knife FFG or Saber is far superior in my experience. Hollow grinds make a better EDC and generally exhibit better slicing ability and cutting edge agility.


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It seems to add strength to the THINNER stock offered recently in o2w. Also more chopping weight, less work than full flat to finish.... Ummmmmmm...... Tafn.
 
The whole point of a flat sabre grind is to make a thinner overall blade. Same as a sabre hollow grind. The flat sabre grind will be much stiffer (resistance to bending) than a hollow sabre grind of the same thickness and same flat side width. The reason is simple due to more material in the cross section. It is all about design. You can make a thicker hollow ground blade that is as stiff. Same goes with a full flat grind.

For example a 3/16 inch thick sabre flat ground ZT BME might provide the exact same lateral strength as a 1/4 inch thick flat ground BME. Two different ways of getting a similar result.
 
so what have you all found to be the best grind for a large Busse chopper? ..Ive heard good things about FFG...and a lot of people say convex is the bees knees!! or is flat saber where its at?
 
I prefer flat ground myself. But flat sabre is fine. Convex tends to be thicker but in a chopper it does not bind like the others do. Mixed review on hollow. A hollow ground edge will be weaker. In a small knife I don't mind, but in a chopper never. Busses zero ground blades are a mix of flat and convex, and seem to work great.
 
As Cobalt mentioned, lateral strength. But for me it is also weight balance.

When you remove material, say, from a 0.32" full flat grind knife to turn it into a saber ground blade, only a small portion of the removed steel comes from the blade, while a HUGE amount of steel (and weight) come off the handle. If given the choice between a 0.32" FFG knife or a 0.25" saber ground knife, the saber sounds enormously better to me. Lighter weight in the handle means more forward weight for chopping with only a very slight reduction in lateral strength.
 
360joules said:
As Cobalt mentioned, lateral strength. But for me it is also weight balance.

When you remove material, say, from a 0.32" full flat grind knife to turn it into a saber ground blade, only a small portion of the removed steel comes from the blade, while a HUGE amount of steel (and weight) come off the handle. If given the choice between a 0.32" FFG knife or a 0.25" saber ground knife, the saber sounds enormously better to me. Lighter weight in the handle means more forward weight for chopping with only a very slight reduction in lateral strength.
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good points. Fact is lateral strength on even the thinner busses is so high you need not worry about it.
 
When I was younger, I almost demanded hollow grind on my knives. I'm at the age now that I will probably be dead before I sharpen a Busse sabre-grind far enough back to make a difference in the edge bevel. But I still wish they ground that knife thinner behind the bevel.
 
No matter how you slice it (pun intended ;)), hollow grinds bind more when cutting deeper than about half of the blade height in stiffer materials. Once you get to the point on the blade where they really start getting thicker, they push the material being cut back toward itself. They do really well when cutting lighter weight, less stiff materials though. FFG is my grind of choice, followed by full-height convex, and then saber grinds.
 
Not sure why they make anything other than full convex, but I suppose some people like it. FFG is almost as aesthetically pleasing to me; saber looks weird to me for some reason.
 
SpyderPhreak said:
No matter how you slice it (pun intended ;)), hollow grinds bind more when cutting deeper than about half of the blade height in stiffer materials. Once you get to the point on the blade where they really start getting thicker, they push the material being cut back toward itself. They do really well when cutting lighter weight, less stiff materials though. FFG is my grind of choice, followed by full-height convex, and then saber grinds.
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i never ran into problems with it on the stuff I usually cut. Skin, flesh, hide, corrugated cardboard. I don't doubt you one bit in what you state. Just saying the stuff I cut, it was never a problem. NOW, that being said, I like full flat grind second best, or almost tied for first. Saber next. Convex last. Convex just doesn't work for me.
 
Cobalt said:
good points. Fact is lateral strength on even the thinner busses is so high you need not worry about it.
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For knives 3/16 and up, I very much agree. So with this in mind, and restating my point, the difference between a 0.32" FFG chopper and a 0.25" saber ground one is how much weight you want to carry around in the handle.
 
Dr. Lecter said:
Not sure why they make anything other than full convex, but I suppose some people like it. FFG is almost as aesthetically pleasing to me; saber looks weird to me for some reason.
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I believe it has to do with the fact that people have complained about excessively thick/obtuse edges on their full convex models. For a chopping knife, a proper full convex grind shows many benefits over other types of grinds. It is less noticeable compared to FFG in smaller utility knives, however.
 
Keep in mind the intended purpose. A "saber" grind is so named after a cavalry saber which had to be able not only to withstand the force of a swing, but also the added momentum of the horse charge. All things are compromises and this added strength comes at the expense of cutting ability where a flat or convex is superior (but less shock resistant). Although I LLLLove many of my Busses in saber grind, I find it a relatively inelegant design; its like you take a normal flat blade profile and just add a rectangular block of steel along the spine. Why not just massage some of that steel volume in the spine down toward the edge where it belongs and make a convex blade :D . I prefer convex which is harder and more expensive to grind. Full flat is also good, and saber is ok, but I have no use at all for deep hollow grinds.
 
Not much Hollow Grind love in here ---- send me all your TGLB's --- I'll take care of them :)
 
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