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Flea Markets, What to Look For?
- Thread starter Sulaco
- Start date
pretty good advice.
buy anything that looks like an axe
dicker with the seller, even walk away
ask other dealers if they know who might have an axe or if they have anymore axes
in other words , ask questions, but don't give out too much info yourself, don't seem eager to pay any price for whatever they dig up.
good luck
Whatever heads you get, make sure the eyes aren't deformed, that there isn't excessive poll damage (peening/mushrooming), and that they still have decent bits left (really short full-sized heads are usually too thick and about out of hardened steel). Covered in rust is fine as long as it isn't large flakes. And make sure they are straight overall...bent bits are bad.
Square_peg
Gold Member
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- Feb 1, 2012
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Look for axes without excessive wear at the toe - the upper point of the bit. The toe should be longer than the heel. Look for a high centerline - most of the older axes had it - the newer ones don't. Look for stamps even if they aren't legible under the rust. When you clean 'em up it will show better.
Lastly, stay the hell out of my neighborhood!
Lastly, stay the hell out of my neighborhood!
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- Nov 15, 2003
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What is a high centerline? I can axe the crap out of some wood, but I don't know anything technical about axes. I live in Lexington, SC. Most of the axes in these parts are wide, thin bits for soft woods like pines. We do have a good many hardwoods, white and red oaks, hickory, but a lot of soft stuff.
Thanks all!
Thanks all!
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- Aug 28, 2010
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Check the two photos at the top:
http://axeconnected.blogspot.com/2011/05/notes-on-ax-head-geometry-part-2-of.html
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- Aug 2, 2014
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Sticking an axe is more about where you place your cuts than anything. A high centerline isn't going to matter much if you bury the axe without a corner free to release from. And the Swedish felling axes I have seen are not as flat as the limbing and crafting axes.
The axeconnected post is interesting, but I think it may be confusing a balance issue with that of busting the chip. A chip will bust depending on the chisel angle and the hollow no matter if it is the entire width of the bit or just at the centerline. The high centerline may just be an excess of material, or a lack of material elsewhere for balance/lightening reasons. Dudley Cook says that most old axes had too much material and need to be flattened out.
The other issue is that as axe bits become wider, generally for hardwoods, the centerline tends to become exaggerated in proportions; which may explain the focus on this style of American axe and the confusion over this centerline feature, they are perhaps the most common axe and the aesthetic difference is confused out of confirmation bias. One uses a hardwood axe in hardwood, concludes it is better than the softwood axe and this is due to this seemingly unique feature - just that the feature is also there in the softwood axe, just in a different way and the centerline was never for busting purposes anyway. Any old discussion of the high centerline I have seen is strictly for balance in the swing (just think of where the mass should be on an axe due to its rounded swing). Swedish axes tend to have less width at the eye, and are already balanced towards the nose of the axe - hence less need for an exaggerated centerline because the majority of material is already in place.
Another possibility is that the extra mass behind the nose of the axe is intended to compensate for its lower cutting ability. But I suspect it is mainly for balance and limiting the amount of material required to open the cut rather than for busting the chip or releasing the axe. Again, if relieving the pressure on the edge is the main issue then it does not matter if the cheeks are flat or convex. One of the examples axeconnected uses for the convex centerline is actually a Swedish axe, and it seems his examples of flat cheeks are carving and limbing axes where you definitely would not want convex cheeks - as carving would result in poor cuts and tears/splits, while limbing would result in deflections and less penetration.
In other words, not only are the flat-cheeked axes flat, their hollow is at a reduced angle compared to the convex-cheeked axes. To really test this theory one would have to use the same size axes with angles only differing at the centerline convex. The force at the centerline is much less than that force at the edge, so it makes no sense that convexity would matter here apart from balance reasons. A flat-cheeked axe with the same angle as the convex-cheeked axe should cut exactly the same with only slight balance differences.
Bits that are wider and appear to be thinner are generally for hardwoods. The chisel angle may be too short, and cutting too deeply into softwood may be the reason for the sticking rather than the centerline height. If it's only the Swedish axe that sticks then it's a matter of the angles and/or your choice of cut.
The axeconnected post is interesting, but I think it may be confusing a balance issue with that of busting the chip. A chip will bust depending on the chisel angle and the hollow no matter if it is the entire width of the bit or just at the centerline. The high centerline may just be an excess of material, or a lack of material elsewhere for balance/lightening reasons. Dudley Cook says that most old axes had too much material and need to be flattened out.
The other issue is that as axe bits become wider, generally for hardwoods, the centerline tends to become exaggerated in proportions; which may explain the focus on this style of American axe and the confusion over this centerline feature, they are perhaps the most common axe and the aesthetic difference is confused out of confirmation bias. One uses a hardwood axe in hardwood, concludes it is better than the softwood axe and this is due to this seemingly unique feature - just that the feature is also there in the softwood axe, just in a different way and the centerline was never for busting purposes anyway. Any old discussion of the high centerline I have seen is strictly for balance in the swing (just think of where the mass should be on an axe due to its rounded swing). Swedish axes tend to have less width at the eye, and are already balanced towards the nose of the axe - hence less need for an exaggerated centerline because the majority of material is already in place.
Another possibility is that the extra mass behind the nose of the axe is intended to compensate for its lower cutting ability. But I suspect it is mainly for balance and limiting the amount of material required to open the cut rather than for busting the chip or releasing the axe. Again, if relieving the pressure on the edge is the main issue then it does not matter if the cheeks are flat or convex. One of the examples axeconnected uses for the convex centerline is actually a Swedish axe, and it seems his examples of flat cheeks are carving and limbing axes where you definitely would not want convex cheeks - as carving would result in poor cuts and tears/splits, while limbing would result in deflections and less penetration.
In other words, not only are the flat-cheeked axes flat, their hollow is at a reduced angle compared to the convex-cheeked axes. To really test this theory one would have to use the same size axes with angles only differing at the centerline convex. The force at the centerline is much less than that force at the edge, so it makes no sense that convexity would matter here apart from balance reasons. A flat-cheeked axe with the same angle as the convex-cheeked axe should cut exactly the same with only slight balance differences.
Bits that are wider and appear to be thinner are generally for hardwoods. The chisel angle may be too short, and cutting too deeply into softwood may be the reason for the sticking rather than the centerline height. If it's only the Swedish axe that sticks then it's a matter of the angles and/or your choice of cut.
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Read as much as you can tolerate on here and read a bunch more (historical) about anything to do with axes. You really don't want to be completely naive when dickering over a $50 flea market head, especially if an emboss Black Raven shows under the rust, or more likely a 'made in China/India-type' stamp.
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- Nov 15, 2003
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Will do thanks.
Easy. Until you are educated, don't spend any more than a quarter to a few dollars for each axe or hatchet head, and then only if you are sure it is USA made.
IF you look and you are patient you will find axe heads for that price. If you are not patient then you will end up with a pile of junk that is worth less than you paid for it.
IF you look and you are patient you will find axe heads for that price. If you are not patient then you will end up with a pile of junk that is worth less than you paid for it.
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- Sep 24, 2010
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- 2,395
Ah....flea markets. Heaven to a tool collector, most of the time anyways.
Now that I am in SC there are few flea markets like I had in Pa. Don't get me wrong they are around here, but often just contain junk. But sometimes a gem can be had. In Pa I routinely could go home with a dozen axes on a good day of flea marketing.
I don't bicker about price usually because I wouldn't want someone bickering to me. I will sometime throw a low ball offer, to see what happens. Time of year is a big factor with this - early year flea markets where the usually sellers have fresh inventory they are less likely to dance on price. End of year flea markets, where these same guys don't want to have to haul and store inventory, are more likely to entertain offers so they can simply off load inventory. At least that has been my experience anyway.
As far as what to look for - I look for everything now. I look for old window frames, old wooden chairs, old pre channellock tools when it was Dearment. Old Sears and Craftsman tools, SKS, etc. I got some Tome Feteira files a couple weeks ago for a $1 piece which was a huge steal. So bargains are out there.
I have had some real winners come out of flea markets -
So the deals and steals are out there - just have to look, talk to, make some friends with. I have many estate cleaners, garage salers, etc that are out getting me axes. It works out well.
Finally this guy - paid $7 for -
Now that I am in SC there are few flea markets like I had in Pa. Don't get me wrong they are around here, but often just contain junk. But sometimes a gem can be had. In Pa I routinely could go home with a dozen axes on a good day of flea marketing.
I don't bicker about price usually because I wouldn't want someone bickering to me. I will sometime throw a low ball offer, to see what happens. Time of year is a big factor with this - early year flea markets where the usually sellers have fresh inventory they are less likely to dance on price. End of year flea markets, where these same guys don't want to have to haul and store inventory, are more likely to entertain offers so they can simply off load inventory. At least that has been my experience anyway.
As far as what to look for - I look for everything now. I look for old window frames, old wooden chairs, old pre channellock tools when it was Dearment. Old Sears and Craftsman tools, SKS, etc. I got some Tome Feteira files a couple weeks ago for a $1 piece which was a huge steal. So bargains are out there.
I have had some real winners come out of flea markets -
So the deals and steals are out there - just have to look, talk to, make some friends with. I have many estate cleaners, garage salers, etc that are out getting me axes. It works out well.
Finally this guy - paid $7 for -
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2010
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- 2,395
Yeah those all came out of Pa. Limited pickings in Fort Mill/Rock Hill area so far, but I haven't done a lot of digging into just all what is out there yet. The ones I have been to like I said have all been disappointing. Looks like the Barnyard is an actual chain of flea markets. If yours in Lexington is like the one in Pineville it is full of china junk and stolen goods people are trying to sell, especially construction equipment.
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- Nov 15, 2003
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- 2,422
Yeah since it doesn't really get that cold down here for very long the timber industry has been long dead. I suppose further north of us folks who heat with wood have kept the axe market alive for longer and thus, you see more on the second hand market as a result.
Most of what I've seen around here are mostly tools, and axes are usually junkers or imports. But I haven't looked in a long time so hopefully I'll come across something here and there. It's too convenient to me not to at least look and see.
Most of what I've seen around here are mostly tools, and axes are usually junkers or imports. But I haven't looked in a long time so hopefully I'll come across something here and there. It's too convenient to me not to at least look and see.