Flexcut Gold Worked Better Than CBN Emulsion Or Bark River Compounds

[ncrockclimb]

I have been getting into fixed blade knives that come with convex edges. Instead of using my Sharpmaker on these edges, I decided that I would preserve the convex edge and learn to strop.

My process for learning was to get an inexpensive knife off the “Knife Makers For Sale Area.” Unfortunately, the 1095 blade with a para-cord handle I purchased came to me scary sharp. Since a sharp knife is not good for practice, I dulled the edge by by dragging it at a 90 degree angle across my medium Sharpmaker rod. Problem solved, the blade was really dull!

My first stropping efforts were with with a Flexcut Strop and Gold compound. It took about 10 minutes, but I was able to get the blade back to paper cutting sharp. Another 5 had it easily shaving my leg hair.

I decided to try using the black and green compound from Bark River on a Knives Ship Free strop. No matter how I tried, I could not get the blade to shave. I also got some of the CBN Emulsion from Ken Schwartz. I got 16, 8, 4, and 2. I put it on some more of the Knives Ship Free strops, and again I could not get the blade shaving sharp. I just dropped over $250 on strops, compound and emulsion, and I cannot replicate the results I got with a $20 setup from Flexcut!!! What the *&%$!!!

I tried this with my economical 1095 blade and an O1 Fiddleback. In both cases, neither the emulsion or the Bark River compounds on KSF strops could get my knives to shave. However, a few minutes on my Flexcut Strop with Gold compound got them scary sharp and shaving leg hair with ease.

So…
At this point I am about to put the emulsion and stops up for sale in one batch and the Bark River compound and strops up for sale in another batch. However, before I do anything, I wanted to post up here and get a second opinion. What do you guys think is going on? Is it me? Is it that the KSF strops are soft and smooth vs the hard and coarse strop from Flexcut? Please, share your insight. I hear people rave about the CBN emulsion and Bark River compounds, but the results I get with Flexcut Strop and Gold compound are far superior.

Thanks for reading my excessively long and rambling post!

 

[awestib]

Interesting post and no worries about rambling!

Certainly I think different backings for a given compound gives you completely different results. The compounds show different characters and your technique needs to be adjusted too. One reason why some here and particularly HeavyHanded always recommends compound on paper on hard backing, preferable his washboard or a coarse stone. This way the only variable is the compound! Plus no mess, always a brand new backing for fresh compound, no cross contamination etc. The problem was a bit to get the paper tight enough on the stone but now Martin came up with a new concept for sale that takes care of that as well. You really should give that a try before selling all the compounds. I have used this with coarse BRKT black compound and it can be very aggressive and restore a lot of damage in a reasonable time.

I have had great results with CBN 16 on a hard and thin leather strop for my convex edges for restoring and maintenance. With the right touch, I can at times treetop a few hair on my wrist off this strop - not with authority though. It does not seem to work as good for V-edge and I am not sure why.

Others have had great results with the Flexcut gold compound, HeavyHanded for instance. Others have great results with white compound on leather with a quick stropping motion (balanced strop by Bluntcut), or white compound or Mother's Mag on denim, linen etc., Jason (Jason B) and David (OwE) for instance.

So I think it takes a lot of time and use/tinkering on different knives, different backings etc. to really understand the use of different compounds. I just yesterday used 6 m Diamond paste, the Flexcut gold, the BRKT white and a 1200 grit Sicpaste on Balsa wood strop after hand sharpening a 52100 knife on a well used extra coarse DMT stone. Every single time, the edge off the DMT was better in 3finger test than off any of the compounds strops. Yes they cut TB paper better after but overall I was not even able to see a difference.

Looking forward to see what others think!

 

[ncrockclimb]

Thanks for the reply, Andy. I am thinking that the issues is 100% my technique / the difference in the hardness of the strops. I know that there is nothing wrong with Bark River compound, the emulsions or the strop.

BTW, can someone confirm that the Flexcut Gold has a micron range between .5 and 6 micron? I have also read .5 and 3 micron, but for some reason remember being more convinced that .5 - 6 was the right number...

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I'd suggest taking your time in trying all of your different compounds on as many substrates as you can, before writing any particular compounds off. Like Andy said, the substrate on which the compound is used can make a HUGE difference in how it works. For example, I never really liked diamond compound on simple leather (cowhide) strops at all; seemed almost ineffective most of the time. BUT, in using diamond on wood, like balsa, basswood, maple, etc., my opinion of the compound got turned on it's ear; it's completely different, and much, much more effective. I'd suspect you might find a similar contrast in the CBN (though I haven't tried that yet), if you try it on something much firmer.

I haven't used black compounds much at all; the few times I have, it seemed too aggressive a polisher on softish strops, which usually left my edges rounded off and/or overpolished, removing all discernible 'bite' from the apex. This might also be an issue with the above-mentioned diamond or CBN compounds, because each is very aggressive and a softish backing might lend to rounding of the edge very quickly; and more so, with soft or low wear-resistant steels like 1095. I've always liked green compound on a free-hanging leather strop (belt) for 1095; it's always been a good pairing with a lighter 'touch' (not so aggressive), every time I've used it for that steel.


David

 

[Jason B.]

Your trying to do too much with a strop.

Strops are for finishing a sharp edge or bringing that pop back to a lightly used edge.

Stropping to sharpen is an unfortunate mindset instilled by the convex knife movement.

 

[blanex1]

with stropping,i think that 70% of its technique!i and you shouldn't give up yet,and some times you just need the basic stuff,like a plane old leather strop,and not so much all kinds of compounds,because you will never no what really works in the end! a vary light hand and proper angle is the key hear,at first when i started i didn't even no what a strop was! and was thinking they where only used for strait razors like in olden days in barber shops!take your time and use a light hand,as with any thing,its a learning process,good luck.

 

[awestib]

This might also be an issue with the above-mentioned diamond or CBN compounds, because each is very aggressive and a softish backing might lend to rounding of the edge very quickly
David

I think that's the reason for my disappointment with CBN on V-edges and regular carbon steel. The already convex edge "protects" the very apex a bit where as the v-edge gets rounded easily and looses it's bite.

 

[HeavyHanded]

I cannot speak to the CBN materials, but have used the Bark River black - it worked in the range of the Dico black and the older Sears black - all very god materials. Aside from any other differences, the Flexcut is a very good product and I have felt so since I first gave it a try, and is the best single stage compound out there (excepting the stuff I make ).

The multi grit formula restores and refines in ways that many seem to think of as unlikely, or inferior to single grit compounds, but it works great. Based on how much steel it pulls off an edge it also must have a very high abrasive percentage by weight.

This is also one of those compounds that can be rubbed down and reused at a higher level of refinement should it not be bright enough as it comes off the block. A million variables when stropping, but I am not surprised in the least that the Flexcut is giving you better results than many other materials, at least on low vanadium content steels.

Flexcut is in a range from 6 to .3 micron, with the bulk being 5 and .5 micron. The smaller particles are much more numerous.

 

[pjwoolw]

OP I don't know what your actually doing but my experience with the exact same CBN compounds and strops is opposite to yours. I expect to much pressure is being used with the CBN.

 

[ncrockclimb]

OP I don't know what your actually doing but my experience with the exact same CBN compounds and strops is opposite to yours. I expect to much pressure is being used with the CBN.

That very well could be the case. A much lighter touch might be the ticket to getting the CBN to work for me. The Flexcut strop is firmer than the KSF one, and there for more forgiving to me using too much pressure... maybe?

I am a stropping noob, and any input on what to do would be really appreciated. While I am happy with the results I am getting with Flexcut, I would like to widen the range of products that I can use and broaden my skill set. More comments and input would be very much appreciated!

BTW, in case I did not state it strongly enough, I AM NOT saying that any of this is the fault of the products. All three of the companies I mentioned make great stuff and I a lot of people have great results with them.

 

[pjwoolw]

I had a senior moment and the strops I've been using are the DLT not the KSF. So I'm not familiar with any of the strops your using. I prefer a thinner piece of leather or whatever it may be. I imagine yours are much thicker leather wise. So give it go using light pressure and try to make sure your hitting the apex of your edge.

A good example might be to take a look at Jason's technique using edge trailing strokes on a water stone. Minus the little circle on the tip. Very similar to my technique and many other folks I'm sure.

 

[HeavyHanded]

That very well could be the case. A much lighter touch might be the ticket to getting the CBN to work for me. The Flexcut strop is firmer than the KSF one, and there for more forgiving to me using too much pressure... maybe?

I am a stropping noob, and any input on what to do would be really appreciated. While I am happy with the results I am getting with Flexcut, I would like to widen the range of products that I can use and broaden my skill set. More comments and input would be very much appreciated!

BTW, in case I did not state it strongly enough, I AM NOT saying that any of this is the fault of the products. All three of the companies I mentioned make great stuff and I a lot of people have great results with them.

The harder the strop the more forgiving of pressure variation and the more repair/recondition work it will do. Taken to an extreme you can sharpen a blade from dull using compound on hardwood with a drop of oil to string out the binders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfblDsTy-FY


As the strop becomes less firm, one has to do more set-up work on the stones and apply far less pressure. It becomes a final handful of passes on an already sharp edge or the edge will round over. A lot more utility can be gained on convex edges due to the much larger surface area and the blade geometry working to minimize rounding at the edge.

The list of variables explodes when stropping - how the binder takes to whatever surface you're using, abrasive content, alloying elements in the steel, blade geometry, amount of applied force, how swamped with removed steel the strop has become.

 

[fsatsil]

Stropping with very fine grit compound is really best for doing touch ups not for bringing back a very dull edge. You might want to try sandpaper on a mousepad or on top of your strop to get the knife sharp then finish on the strop.