Flimsy response from Victorinox

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sgtmike88

Joined
Oct 15, 2000
Messages
799
Well gents, here's the reply I got from Victorinox:

With regard to your suggested modification of the Yeoman model we regret to inform you that for technical reasons it would not be possible to replace the hook with an awl. Also we have no locking mechanism for this size (91mm) knife. It is only available for the 111 mm size.

Basically we would like to say that we have learned over all these years that it is impossible to produce the perfect knife. Everybody has got another perception about it. What might be a perfect combination for a
technician maybe an impossible proposition for a camper, sales man etc.

Since we are a relatively highly automated knife factory we must be able to produce in large quantities in order to be able to amortize the high machine and tooling cost.

From the commerical point of view we would also have to find out whether the general demand for a new type would justify the inclusion in our current program.

We hope you will understand that it is not always easy to make the right decisions.

Thank you for your understanding and best regards,

VICTORINOX AG, Sandra Gehrig

Maybe we should start an email and snail mail campaign to promote our collective interests? What do you think?

Mike


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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.
 
That really doesn't sound very flimsy to me. Based on your letter, they know of one guy who wants that knife. They won't make any money on one knife sale.

I'm on another board that deals with Honda CRX owners. About twice a year they all get crazy about writing Honda to start making the CRX again. We have about 100 people max that come to that board, and they all get mad when Honda responds that they won't be remaking the old CRX just for 100 people.

It's a matter of economics though. I read something interesting the other day about the new Airbus A380 jumbo jet. They'll have to sell 250 airplanes in the first year just to break even on the project- - -and they're making a LOT more on those airplanes than Victorinox makes on a knife. Victorinox would probably not consider making a new knife unless they thought they could sell at least 5,000 in the first year. Our letter writing campaign might be enough to get them to do a tentative market analysis, but I don't think it'd directly result in convincing them to make the knife.

 
At this point I'd say that you're both right to a degree. Certainly this is not the answer that we were hoping to hear from a company that already makes 50 bazillion different styles of pocket knife, but on the other hand, this was at least a real, somewhat timely response from a real person that took some time to write.

Shadow is right in pointing out that we shouldn't be surprised that Victorinox didn't jump at the first opportunity to make a new design that was proposed by only one person. While I personally believe that the inherent value and marketability of a "survival" SAK should be self evident to these people, obviously it isn't. It's kind of funny when you think about how Victorinox has been out there actively trying to corner the "yeoman" market, yet they don't view people who are concerned about backwoods survival as a suitable demographic.
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Anyway, it's for precisely this reason that I suggested in my original post that the best way to approach Victorinox with this project would be for a group of professional survival instructors to make a similar pitch. And I don't know if Mike or Spark see any potential in such a design, but what if this could be proposed in concert with a special Bladeforums promotion? Perhaps if Victorinox knew that this notional model would be marketed to the members of the world's largest online knife forum as the "Official Bladeforums SAK", the tooling costs might not seem so high. Food for thought.
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Semper Fi

-Bill
 
I understand marketing. I also understand the market. I also understand what we're asking for isn't a major overhaul of tooling, everything we want is in their current parts inventory, sans maybe the pins of correct length.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that major sporting goods retailers like REI, Campmor, Eastern Mountain Sports, etc. would jump on such a model. These companies thrive on the business of people looking for that "ultimate" survival knife or SAK or other gadget du jour. (Sounds like me describing me.)

I think this project is a lot more feasible than their current undertakings, like the translucent hippy type pinko models they're currently marketing.

Rant mode in check.

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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.
 
Well we also have to remember that Vic. IS a major company, and as such is a major bureauocracy. Bureauocracies rarely make the best decision right away. Even if someone at Vic. got really excited about a bladeforums survival edition SAK (which by the way is a really good idea IMHO) it'd take forEVER for enough of the higher-ups to figure out that it's a good idea and actually do something about it.


I'm not saying don't go for it, I'm just saying be prepared for an uphill campaign in getting it to production.


 
UPDATE: After another series of contacts with Victorinox, they have agreed to discuss possible modifications to the 111mm Outrider model with their "survival experts."

Maybe, just maybe! At least they're listening.

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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.
 
Like any other company, descions are reached by economic feasability. If they have enough contacts wishing for certain modificatiosn then they will consider making such changes. It has to be worth thier while, by the accountants, to make design tooling and R&D and have to be able to make payoff for the work thatn goes into it in a specfic time period, or it will never get past the talking stages.

If this is a design change a lot wish maybe a petition wiht a lot of names attached might be a good idea.
 
Mike, that is good that they are at least listening.
Bronco, a limited edition BFC SAK? I like this idea! It could be a good start anyway.
As you know even the Scientist and Yeoman models are discontinued, some of their features were incorporated into the Explorer models and a new(?) Huntsman (with pen and straight pin, see it at http://www.swiss-knife.com). The 111 mm models are also evolving, so nothing is lost yet. SAKs are probably the most accepted and known multiblade knives/tools among non-knife people, and their purchases maintain the profit of Vic. The Scientist and the Yeoman were obviously not profitable enough, even a lot of folks on BFC consider them favourites.
But the tastes of the general public could be 'manipulated', so I think Bronco's idea to reach out to survival/outdoor experts for their support and PR is great.
 
Sgtmike,
Do you think it would do any good to post a link to your contact at Victorinox? I'm wondering what you all think their reaction would be if they started receiving a bunch of emails from BFC members complimenting them on their wise decision to explore the possibility of a new survival configuration for the Outrider model.

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Semper Fi

-Bill
 
If you choose to email Victorinox to support this worthy cause, here's the email address:

E-Mail: info@victorinox.ch Please direct the email to Sandra Gehrig in the body of the text.

With the Outrider model, it's a simple matter of adding one spring width to accommodate the magnifying glass and lg inline phillips screwdriver. The rest of the suggestion dealt with adding an eyeglass screwdriver, ballpoint pen, pin, and maybe the whistle or light to the handle.

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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.
 
I like this forum! This is really a community, knowledge and experience is exchanged and each of us is enriched.
Thanks Bronco for bringing up the survival SAK issue with 'A SAK question for our moderators': http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum18/HTML/001018.html
And thanks Sgtmike88 for your suggestions, the poll at 'New survival SAK?':
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum18/HTML/001035.html
and for taking prompt action by contacting Victorinox.
I also will contact Victorinox and hope others will do so too.
littleknife
 
Thanks, littleknife. Who knows, with a little luck we may just be able to pull this off.
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Semper Fi

-Bill
 
Well, gentlemen, today I got a very kind but sorrily not encouraging response from Victorinox. Essentially what they say is:

"The inclusion of the various features which you feel should be in a new survival-oriented Swiss Army Knife would involve huge amounts of tooling costs because, contrary to what you think the features of the 58mm, 74mm,
84mm and 91mm Knife cannot intercharged in a 111mm model of the lock-blade series in the Survival range. Theses things are not always so easy to implement as the ultimate consumer might think. Also, if we want to survive
in todays competitive market we must try to remain very cost-conscious, Switzerland being amongst the countries with the highest standard of living."

As you see the 'survival SAK' has a very different meaning for us and for the corporate world.
Maybe 2-3 years ago this would have been a more acceptable idea for Victorinox, and who knows, several years from now it could became so.
 
I'm getting the distinct feeling they don't want to produce such a knife, as it would probably hurt their other sales to badly. As it stands now, we have to buy several knives to get the tools we need or we have to buy "top of the line" with all the useless junk we don't need.

I'm not giving up on this one yet though.

It's a shame really. I thought Victorinox was a customer oriented company.

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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.
 
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