Flipper question.

[Omega Leather Works]

Obviously flippers are super popular right now and people are spending big bucks on mid techs and customs.

My question is regarding the quality of the flip. What is it that makes the flip on these knives better than on a good production knife like the Southard? I can't see it being smoother. The only thing I can think of is that I can get the blade past the detent on the Spyderco without it fully engaging if I try. Is that the difference?

I'd love to handle (what a joy it must be to own!) one of these amazing high end pieces, but I'm afraid I can't at this time. Help me understand.

 

[Natedog351]

Some of it has to do with the bearing system used the rest I think is the overall fit and finish that makes it buttery smooth and just right

 

[evanPGH]

Some of it has to do with the bearing system used the rest I think is the overall fit and finish that makes it buttery smooth and just right

+1

Also, the overall balance of the knife affects the flipping action.

 

[spyken]

If I understand correctly, flipping action/flippability is dependent on a variety of factors:
- smoothness of pivot/bushing/bearing system (so tolerances count);
- detent strength (converting potential energy to kinetic energy) - you don't want a weak detent, neither do you want something that scrapes the skin off your fingertips;
- location of the flipper tab;
- weight/length of the blade; and

a host of other mechanical/physical attributes which I do not even understand

 

[1345]

I'm gonna go with natedog on this one. I'm in the market for a Crusader Forge flipper, but currently I own one of Chris Martin's Flippers. I'd consider it a high to mid level custom and after handling a few production flippers, it is night and day.
Here is my mini overview which you can see the action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttf7pxWeStY

 

[Sonnydaze]

I've had two Spyderco Brad Southards. I've had two Hinderer XM-18 flippers.
Two Southards, new, cost me $480.
Two XM-18 flippers (3" and 3.5"), USED, cost me $1375.
These are ALL fine knives with excellent, IMO, flipping action.
I will vote for the Southard for a casual EDC flipper.
Of course, there are big differences between Spyderco and Hinderer. But not that big.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

So have any of you come across a knife where you could press on the flipper (hard enough to get it past the detent) and not be able to stop it short of full engagement?

Example - my xxxx flips all the way open regardless of how hard I try to get it not to.?

 

[ToneGrail]

So have any of you come across a knife where you could press on the flipper (hard enough to get it past the detent) and not be able to stop it short of full engagement?

Example - my xxxx flips all the way open regardless of how hard I try to get it not to.?

Kershaw RAM

 

[Natedog351]

So have any of you come across a knife where you could press on the flipper (hard enough to get it past the detent) and not be able to stop it short of full engagement?

Example - my xxxx flips all the way open regardless of how hard I try to get it not to.?

Not sure what your getting at here but assuming that it's a frame lock which is pretty standard on flippers putting enough pressure on the lock bar will stop the flipper from opening all the way

 

[egally08]

When he says, stops it from coming out, he is meaning, just by applying pressure on the flipper. I have come across a lot of flipper with a weak detent. Not so many in the higher price range though, since that is what this thread is about.

On my ZT 560 and my southard, if I am holding the knife at what ever angle, and put enough pressure to get past the bearing, it will fully engage. Now, I have also had higher Midtechs like the Wilson eagle, that if I held the knife horizontal and hit the flipper, it would not engage fully sometimes.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

When he says, stops it from coming out, he is meaning, just by applying pressure on the flipper. I have come across a lot of flipper with a weak detent. Not so many in the higher price range though, since that is what this thread is about.

On my ZT 560 and my southard, if I am holding the knife at what ever angle, and put enough pressure to get past the bearing, it will fully engage. Now, I have also had higher Midtechs like the Wilson eagle, that if I held the knife horizontal and hit the flipper, it would not engage fully sometimes.

Right. My Southard will engage almost always but it bugs me that it doesn't sometimes. Angle (gravity) does play a big role you're right.

Sounds like I need to pick up a Ram. I've heard nothing but good about them. :thumbup:

 

[1345]

When he says, stops it from coming out, he is meaning, just by applying pressure on the flipper. I have come across a lot of flipper with a weak detent. Not so many in the higher price range though, since that is what this thread is about.

On my ZT 560 and my southard, if I am holding the knife at what ever angle, and put enough pressure to get past the bearing, it will fully engage. Now, I have also had higher Midtechs like the Wilson eagle, that if I held the knife horizontal and hit the flipper, it would not engage fully sometimes.

Agree 100% on this as I just picked up a BenchMade 300SN flipper and it will flip open and lock only at certain angles and others it will only partially deploy unlike the phantom flipper which rockets out and always locks. As previously mentioned night and day if you ask me.

 

[jill jackson]

Obviously flippers are super popular right now and people are spending big bucks on mid techs and customs.

My question is regarding the quality of the flip. What is it that makes the flip on these knives better than on a good production knife like the Southard? I can't see it being smoother. The only thing I can think of is that I can get the blade past the detent on the Spyderco without it fully engaging if I try. Is that the difference?

I'd love to handle (what a joy it must be to own!) one of these amazing high end pieces, but I'm afraid I can't at this time. Help me understand.

If a flipper has a very strong detent you won't be able to pull it without firing the blade. If it doesn't you may be able to pull it easy enough that it won't open fully. It doesn't matter what the knife costs in my experience. I have them all price ranges and even some the same model that deploy differently.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

If a flipper has a very strong detent you won't be able to pull it without firing the blade. If it doesn't you may be able to pull it easy enough that it won't open fully. It doesn't matter what the knife costs in my experience. I have them all price ranges and even some the same model that deploy differently.

Yeah, I guess that's to be expected. In general though I hear terms like "smooth" and "fires hard" a lot when discussions of high end flippers come up. Since I don't believe that it is possible for any knife to be smoother in its arc than my southard that leaves the latter. Of course I'm distancing this thread from other factors like quality, f&f, materials etc...

I have noticed that my Spyderco is not as stiff as it was when new (thank God. The lock bar was hard to push over) but it doesn't seem to have made any negative impact on how hard it opens. It's a good knife.

I would be lying though if I said that I wouldn't be disappointed if I bought a MT or custom flipper that didn't open reliably every time. Maybe I'm too picky though. So far I haven't seen many people say that theirs will do this.

 

[simioh]

So have any of you come across a knife where you could press on the flipper (hard enough to get it past the detent) and not be able to stop it short of full engagement?

Example - my xxxx flips all the way open regardless of how hard I try to get it not to.?

This happens with my Kershaw Skyline. Maybe it's because the blade has the black coating on it.

On my CRKT Ripple it always opens all the way. I have to try really hard not to get it to open all the way. I don't even think it has the IKBS system. (Regular Ripple, not the framelock)

 

[bld522]

Yeah, I guess that's to be expected. In general though I hear terms like "smooth" and "fires hard" a lot when discussions of high end flippers come up. Since I don't believe that it is possible for any knife to be smoother in its arc than my southard that leaves the latter. Of course I'm distancing this thread from other factors like quality, f&f, materials etc...

I have noticed that my Spyderco is not as stiff as it was when new (thank God. The lock bar was hard to push over) but it doesn't seem to have made any negative impact on how hard it opens. It's a good knife.

I would be lying though if I said that I wouldn't be disappointed if I bought a MT or custom flipper that didn't open reliably every time. Maybe I'm too picky though. So far I haven't seen many people say that theirs will do this.

I can get just about every non-assisted flipper I've come across (including Southards and full-on customs) to fail to open fully except one, and that's my CRKT Eros. I attribute that to the remarkably strong (some might say ridiculously strong) detent the Eros possesses. If opening fully every single time is mandatory for you, I'd recommend looking into assisted-opening flippers. Otherwise, a little wrist flick is generally all it takes.

 

[bld522]

I don't even think it has the IKBS system. (Regular Ripple, not the framelock)

To the best of my knowledge, all Ripples have the IKBS system including the Walmart (Aluminum-handled linerlock) version.

 

[bpeezer]

This happens with my Kershaw Skyline. Maybe it's because the blade has the black coating on it.

On my CRKT Ripple it always opens all the way. I have to try really hard not to get it to open all the way. I don't even think it has the IKBS system. (Regular Ripple, not the framelock)

It does have the IKBS, there's a video of a guy taking one apart on youtube and the bearings go EVERYWHERE

 

[Omega Leather Works]

It does have the IKBS, there's a video of a guy taking one apart on youtube and the bearings go EVERYWHERE

That actually made me lol.

Bld- nah, it's no requirement. I was just curious as to whether or not that was a common (expected) feature of a high end flipper. It makes sense that a blade will drag when you consider that a detent (in a conventional setup) will apply pressure on the blade as it arcs open. The stronger the detent the more applied pressure on the blade. That is unless someone is using a roller detent. Something that I haven't heard of, but would work well, I'd bet, if done correctly.

 

[jill jackson]

I have two Kershaw Tilts, one opens very easy you can get it to not open fully if you pull the flipper easy enough. The other you have to pull the flipper very hard and the blade will always fly open fast and lock right up. Neither one feels like it has anymore pressure on the blade once it's open. (just working the blades with my hand) I can open either just fine because I know the knives, it doesn't bother me that they are different. I also have a mid tech that takes a lot of pressure to get it started and it opens fast, don't feel any undue pressure on the blade from the lock-bar on that one either. So, I don't think a strong detent puts more pressure on a blade once it's overcame.