Flippin' Insurance Companies!!!

J. Neilson

J. Neilson

Joined
Feb 6, 2001
Messages
3,621
I'm not a happy fella when it comes to this. We're remodeling our old farm house right now and are looking to get a new policy for the house and shop since the last company doesn't want to cover us anymore after last years fire. Getting coverage on the house is no problem, we want a seperate commercial policy for the shop since this is a full time business and our entire income comes from those three little shops 100 yards from the house. We've got all the safety requirements covered (and then some) but, company after company says NO WAY and they flat out admit it's because it's a knife business. WHAT THE HE**!!! If I had a gun shop or a butcher shop this wouldn't be a problem but, they say with knives...it's the complexity of the business. I say it's BS!
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Can any full-timers help me out here? I'm watching Tess get grayer by the minute......Poor Tess is the one that deals with all this cr*p. I'm gonna have to make her a new knife or something.
 
Try describing the business slightly differently.Say,"We make custom sheaths,leather work,and custom knives for collectors." Sometimes it's how you say it,not what you say.I was told I could not get a license for my business.Even though I sell only at shows and by mail,I still make the knives at home (like you-shops out back).The reason was because I was a manufacturer.Then I was advised by a friendly city official to apply as "Handmade crafts and items".No problem.As far as insurance goes,it was the same thing.My agent said to list it as "Small, mail-order handicraft business run from home.With a PO box number as the business address.(City required this for license ,too.)
Good,luck.And remember,you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
 
Same thing happened to me, J. Finally I calculated the net worth of all my equipment and just bought a generic policy covering that amount of non-specific equipment. It was a lot of hassle, but I did it. When I paid the biz loan off, I dropped the coverage. I figure the price of all my gear is less than the expense and hassle of insuring it.

As a side note, I think a lot of knifemakers start off strong and think they are going to have a thriving knife business. Many do, but not enough to have a seperate entity other than say: Jeff Higgins, Knifemaker, or maybe Jeff Higgins Knifemaking LLC. Other than that, most of us are known by our names and personalities rather than our busines names. Black Crow Forge fell in from the snow a couple years ago. I cleared the rubble, and all I have to show for it now is a platform out there. I doubt now I will rebuild. Consequently, when the copyright statute of Black Crow Forge runs out, I'll not renew it.

Most likely, I'll just go as: Jeff Higgins, Knifemaker.

This folds my equipment back into my household insurance, and anything that happens, it'll be covered. Less hassle. Less money.

Any of this babbling make sense? haha :)
 
I have to agree. It's all in what you call yourself. My suggestion would be to call yourselves...."Artist's"......You really are that by strict definition. In the description say something like "Custom metal and leather work".
 
peter nap said:
I have to agree. It's all in what you call yourself. My suggestion would be to call yourselves...."Artist's"......You really are that by strict definition. In the description say something like "Custom metal and leather work".
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Heh heh heh, that's pretty cool thinking! My shops are covered by my homeowner's policy. It may be easier to do this here in Iowa because of the many farms and outbuildings being insured in a general policy.
 
I had the same thing happen to me. I had nationwide as my vehicle insurance carrier at the time, and they offered a discount if you got your homeowners through them also, so I applied.
I answered all the questions and they approved it, so I canceled my current carrier and went with them, notified the bank etc., as my insurance is witheld from our mortgage payment, along with property tax.
About two weeks later I get a notice of cancellation from the underwriters at the main nationwide office in Oregon. I called the swine, and he said they aren't going to insure any "evil weapons makers" (really!), and that was that. No appeal!!
I had one hell of a time getting insurance after that cancellation, and finally had to go with state farm, who refused to cover my shop, or tools.
I had it that way for some years before going with my current policyholder who is "weapons" friendly, and thought the other companies rather ridiculous. It's cheaper too.

I wonder if they are worried about forging related fires?
 
Mike Hull said:
About two weeks later I get a notice of cancellation from the underwriters at the main nationwide office in Oregon. I called the swine, and he said they aren't going to insure any "evil weapons makers" (really!), and that was that. No appeal!!
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Though I can't offer any first hand experience, as I just have a few tools in my small shop, I do believe there is something we could do about stuff like this.

The above is bigotry, plain and simple. It would have been the same as if they'd said "We don't insure Jews!" or Republicans, or ________ [insert racial epithet]. Their refusing to service you is based on nothing more than hatred. The NRA has already made quite a bit of headway in this area, by challenging businesses that refuse service to gun owners, or cities that refuse licences to gun shops, ranges, etc. So there are plenty of precedents already in place.
We have our rights just like anybody else. I realize most knife guys are too kind hearted to pursue things like this legally, but if you reeaaaaly felt like you were getting screwed, just know that you don't have to lay back and take it.
 
peter nap said:
I have to agree. It's all in what you call yourself. My suggestion would be to call yourselves...."Artist's"......You really are that by strict definition. In the description say something like "Custom metal and leather work".
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That's pretty much the careful way to do it, Don. Otherwise, when dealing with insurance firms and banks, we need to be using the term, "cutlery" I think they'll imagine we are speaking of kitchen knives and such and therefore be a little more tolerant. Let's face it: the media screws us whenever they can. We just need to be a bit ahead of them is all.

When I move to NC, I'll probably start a legitimate machine shop, and then all else will fall under that. One less worry.
 
you don't have to lay back and take it.
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Heck, I wish they'd give me a chance to get on my back! ;)

Thanks for the help guys. We talked to a young lady this morning that actually came down to the shop, asked a bunch of good questions and about ordering a knife for her hubby. I'll let you know how it turns out and, if it does, pass the info. along.
 
J, you might talk to an agency about commercial insurance. I used to be an independent consultant and had to carry business liability and automotive insurance to the tune of a couple million apiece. My regular insurance company quoted me between 3-4K a year, but I got it through an underwriter for about $1500/yr.

I just have homeowners insurance for my shop, as it is in an attached garage. Since I have a day job, I would just claim that knifemaking is a hobby.
 
Meh! Insurance companies, I hate them, and for that reason don't have any, for anything. The way I see it is, your premiums over time will cover any mishap and if its THAT big a claim the insurance people will squirm out of it.


Your shop is 100 yards, so no real prob with the house catching fire, what else could really happen? I'm sure you have made changes since the fire so again my question is, what really could happen?

Just be careful and save yourself the hassle and money.
 
Just a red herring guys. The problem we have in this country is that of under insurance. If we insure our home contents for say $3000 to cover the Tv Cd player and a few nick nacks that burglars may steal. Whe you get burgled the company comes out and says well your carpets , curtains, pots and pans, and everything else in the house are worth $10,000 so you have only insured 30% of the risk we will pay 30% of the value of what was stolen.

Also after 10 years the cost of repairs goes up and you get stung again.

Another side line is my old mate 75 has a knife collection. It is locked in a huge metal safe. When he tried to insure it they canceled his policy. He managed to get another but took some doing. Every house has a draw full of knives what is the big deal.
 
Before anyone thinks that your personal equipment,knives,tools,etc. are covered by your home owners - Think Again! If you make them to sell at all (even only one a year,and keep the rest for your collection),you are deemed a business by the insurance companies.They WILL NOT cover any loss on "business equipment or inventory" on a homeowners policy.I had a robbery and we lost $30K in jewelery and collectibles from our home.This was personal items like belt buckles,rings,watches,etc. They refused coverage on anything remotely related to jewelery or such because I am a jeweler.Wouldn't even cover a micrometer ,said I could use it to measure diamonds.
 
We are "cutlers" in the true sense of the word, not knifemakers or bladesmiths. Our business is "cutlery".

You may also get by with blacksmith or what has been suggested, "custom metal working".

Craig
 
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