Florida blade law questions

phantom4 · May 30, 2000

Being that Bladeforums and 1SKS are in Florida and being aware of the CCW law there, I always assumed knife laws were fairly liberal. But I recently read an article in Blade magazine in which people got in big trouble for having "common pocket knives" with blades in excess of three inches. So what's the deal? Are autos legal to own but not carry or not legal at all? What about blade length restrictions for carry? Does it vary based on local law? I'm probably going to be in Tampa at the end of the month and would like to know. Also would appreciate recommendations for Tampa area blade shops. Thanks!

phantom4

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who dares, wins

John Hollister · May 30, 2000

Well . . . Let's start off by saying that for legal advise, see an Attorney. I am not your Attorney, I don't look like your Attorney, I don't smell like your Attorney, I don't even play an Attorney on TV.

Florida State Statute (hence forth known as FSS) does specifically specify "Self-propelled knives, unlawful to manufacture, sell or possess" under FSS 790.225. But that was not your question.

Under FSS 790.001(13), a "weapon" means any dirk, metallic knuckles, slugshot, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon except firearms or a common pocketknife.

FSS 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms. If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree.

I'll paraphrase FSS 790.17. Thou shalt not provide anything (other then a common pocket knife) to a minor under 18 years of age without parental consent. Misdemeanor, first degree.

FSS 790.18 Sale or transfer of arms to minors by dealers. It is unlawful for any dealer in arms to sell or transfer to a minor any forearms, pistol, Springfield rifle or other repeating rifle, bowie knife or dirk knife, brass knuckles, slungshot, or electric weapon or device. Second degree felony.

Personally, I would spend the $117 and get a CCW permit if I were you. Think of it as cheap "Life Insurance". Plus the permit is good for five years now.

FSS 790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm. Subsection (1) specifies: For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electric weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined by FSS 790.001 (9).

This is also the section that allows CCW holder to carry autos in Florida. Basically there is nothing that specifically disallows autos in FSS and under 790.06, it gives blanket permission for permit holders to carry a "knife".

As for "What a Dirk?" In Webster's a Dirk is defined as a "straight-bladed dagger".

Hope this helps

John Hollister

Mike Turber · May 30, 2000

Great answer John, thanks.

The basic idea in Florida is concealment. If you conceal a knife in Florida it can be considered breaking the law regardless of length. It just depends on who is making the decision and if you made rude comments about their mother or heritage.

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misque · May 30, 2000

Man, we need Judge Lowell Bray here on the Forums.
He writes about just this sort of thing in one of the knife rags. He also makes some awesome and sometimes scary using knives. He could sort this Q out lickity split.

My understanding of Fla. Law reflects what Mike T. posted above. I've pulled and used a "large" folder in front of police before and never got any grief from them.
Now I need to mention that when I carry, the pocket clips are always exposed so there is no question that I'm carrying folders. If it's in plain sight, it can't be considered concealed. Having a conservative "look" doesn't hurt either.

I don't know of any cutlery shops in Tampa anymore aside from the one in University Square Mall, (I can't recall the name, sorry) and if you go there, get ready to pay full retail.

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The individualist without strategy who takes opponents lightly will inevitably become the captive of others.
Sun Tzu

Andy Wilson · May 30, 2000

Sorry Misque, but if I remember correctly that store shut down a couple of months ago. And as he said I don'know of any more specialty stores around here anymore. The only one i can think of I havn't been up to in years. It was up in Dunellon, off of U.S. 41, called "Injun Joe's Cutlery" run by Bob Ferring. Know anything about that one Misque, it's not that far from you?

Andy

misque · May 31, 2000

Yep,
I've bought several dozen knives from them.
They have a pretty nice selection of customs, some of which I've seen in the knife rags and their prices, while not the lowest, are competitve none the less. I have three knives from Lowell Bray that I got from there.
Pam told me that two days after I bought one of Bray's Bowies, he showed up looking for it to take to his ABS Journeyman's rating test. Sorry about that Mr. Bray!

Seriously though, they have some pretty hefty custom makers' names in their shop there for the buying. They also have a decent selection of factory knives too.

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The individualist without strategy who takes opponents lightly will inevitably become the captive of others.
Sun Tzu

John Hollister · May 31, 2000

You are correct, one wild card is "Officer Discretion". You could be found to be in possession of a concealed firearm and the officer turn a blind eye. With a good explanation, a decent attitude and an understanding officer, it happens. I wouldn't count on it, but it does occur.

Another wild card is actual case law in your judicial district. You'd be surprised the difference in what exactly "concealed" means county to county.

My suggestion is that you know what the law says and what your local case law is. A call to your local State Attorneys office should answer these questions.

I also suggest (again) that anyone carrying a knife even close to concealed get a CCW permit. You may beat a charge in court, but personally I wouldn't want to deal with the arrest, the jail, the bail, the trail, the time out of work, not to mention the criminal history that shows a charge of "Carrying a Concealed Weapon" and in tiny print, off to one side, it says "Charges Dismissed" or what is actually more common and looks worse "Disposition Unknown".

I figure that $117 is cheap insurance. Don't wait until you need a CCW to apply for one. Here in Florida, it takes every bit of ninty days to get one approved.

Before this gets too out of hand (and it does on other forums), let me answer the "The Second Amendment is my CCW" crowd:

"That's nice. Hey, is that a Black Helicopter over behind those trees? Quick, go jump in your hidy hole . . . I'll cover you."

John Hollister

Rick1955 · May 31, 2000

I would be careful about what is considered "concealed". I have talked to a good many LEOs in variaous areas about this and they all said: If any part of the "weapon" is covered or inside anything and cannot be viewed in its entirety, it can be considered concealed. In at least one jurisdiction I know of LEOs told me that a gun or knife is considered concealed even if it is in a holster or belt pouch, with some or most of the item viewable and the holster or pouch is in plain sight. I had a LEO in SC tell me that the little utility pocketknife I was carrying in a pouch on my belt was a concealed weapon (What he said made no sense to me so I checked it out in the SC Statutes and the knife was legal - therefore, common sense would dictate that it was not a weapon and could not therefore be considered a concealed weapon - but...) he just walked off but if he had been in a bad mood I might have at least gotten a citation or even arrested. This might be splitting hairs but I would not want to have to defend myself for carrying a concealed weapon. Police officers and the courts often interpret laws very broadly. Be careful.

QUOTE]Originally posted by misque:

My understanding of Fla. Law reflects what Mike T. posted above. I've pulled and used a "large" folder in front of police before and never got any grief from them.
Now I need to mention that when I carry, the pocket clips are always exposed so there is no question that I'm carrying folders. If it's in plain sight, it can't be considered concealed. Having a conservative "look" doesn't hurt either.

[/B][/QUOTE]