flyswatter

Rusty

Rusty

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"... By having a knife that is at least 16 ( or more ) inches in length, you access a new level of personal performance - your speed will double. This is because you are now using an edged lever, not just an edged weapon. Let me explain further. By virtue of being big knives the ( Ontario Bowies ) are not only edged weapons, they are also extension weapons. What this means is that you will be faster, safer, and more deceptive in combat. The same principle applies to why it's so difficult to swat a fly with your empty hand ( no leverage = no speed ), but the task is relatively easy when you use a flyswatter, because you have an extension weapon that elicits superior speed via leverage gained from the interaction of the arm, joints and lever ( stick, knife, etc. )..." J.A.Keating, Combat Knives, 1999.



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Rusty
 
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Well you won't dull a khukuri by hitting a hard piece of wood under the fly.
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And you can tell if your khukuri is really sharp if you find fly hairs instead of a split fly if you slightly miss.
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>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
Actually, I posted this mostly because it's got a reasonable explanation for why the 16-18" khuks feel so "lively", and also for the effectiveness of the khuk as a weapon in the shortsword category.

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Rusty
 
Ok, lets explore this further. Which of the khukuri styles 16 to 18 inches long best fits the flyswatter definition Rusty has offered?

Harry

[This message has been edited by Apothecary (edited 03-17-2001).]
 
Harry,

From my own small collection I'd have offered up my 15" (13 oz.) Sanu made Sirupati, or my 18.5" Kumar Kobra as good examples of Keating's analogy.

Blues

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Live Free or Die

Blues' Knife Pix
 
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I have to offer up my 15 3/4" &
18oz. or 1Lb.2oz.Sirupati by Kumar and the original YCS @ 17 3/8" & 22oz.or 1Lb.6oz, which ever you prefer, by Sanu.
These are my 2 lightest khuk's in this length range.
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Do you divide the ounces by the length to get the weight of ounces per inch?
And if so the Sirupati is 1.143-oz. per inch and the YCS is 1.266-oz.per inch.

What's sorta strange is that it's hard to tell which one is the heaviest or *feels* the heaviest. I thought it might just be me, but I had Barb hold them in both hands and she thinks the YCS feels the same or maybe a little lighter than the Sirupati just as I do.
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I wonder if it's because of the fully curved blade versus the modern angle styled blade?


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>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
Yvsa,
My first reaction is to ask where do the two blades balance? If the YCS balances closer to the grip that would explain why your YCS feels lighter. That would make sense given the nicely fullered blade you have on the YCS. BTW, I will just take this time to curse you designing something that could become so enchanting to look at.
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My bank account isn't even finished recouping from my Malla yet!
 
An ounce an inch is a good rule of thumb, but what I notice more is the handle. The smaller handles permit moving your hand around, and invite changing your grip.

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Rusty
 
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Bob both khuk's balance within 1/8" from the bolster but the YCS has about 1/2" more out the back of the handle which could add to
the feeling.
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And as long as you're curseing me you're leaving someone else alone so it's okay. Big Wink.
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Actually it's the HIKV kicking in, don't listen to Tsimi, he's full of blue mud.....
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And Rusty that's one of the really nice things about both of these, the handles fit me just about perfect.
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>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.

[This message has been edited by Yvsa (edited 03-17-2001).]
 
Y'know, that Keating quote doesn't make sense to me.

If a long knife's blade is a lever, it's working against you, at least at the wrist.
Try hanging a weight at the tip of a 5" knife and at the tip of a 9" knife. Obviously any extension of the knife is going to decrease the force you can produce at the tip.

If you want to use a simple machine analogy to a long knife it should be more like a wheel or pulley. What makes a wheel work is that a small angle of rotation at the axis (in this case the wrist) translates into a large LINEAR distance at the rim (in this case the knife tip). Intuitive analogy is that if you snap your wrist a few degrees you can get huge tip speed on a long knife. I think Keating's got this backwards, because the fact that the knife is so long produces a force disadvantage (ie it's a bad lever), but a speed advantage (it's a good wheel). (I guess if you want to get REALLY deep you could say that a lever is a wheel turned backward, but I have trouble twisting my brain around that quick).

A lot of our joints are set up this way. The biceps attaches to the bones of the forearm very close to the joint, putting it at a huge mechanical disadvantage. The trade-off is that a short distance of contraction at the elbow moves the hand a big distance, giving greater speed of motion. Same trade-off as with a big knife.

There's also the fact that most big knives (especially khukuris) will have greater rotational inertia when they hit the target (unless it's handle-heavy), so it's hard to stop and cuts deeper.

Does this seem right, or am I missing something?
 
That's the post I was waiting for, Doc. The longer the knife the longer the rotational moment of inertia which must be overcome. Basic physics say the longer knife will actually slow you down but it certainly gives a reach advantage.

And forwhatever it might be worth, Yangdu routinely catches flies in her hand and releases them outside -- Buddhist fly swatter.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
Himalayan Imports Archives (33,000 + posts)
 
I can catch flies in my hand, too, but I can't snatch them out of the air with chopsticks, as Mas Oyama used to do....


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-Cougar :{)
Use of Weapons
 
Cougar:
I think that the chopsticks fly-swatter story is told of Mushashi Myamoto...he did it to demonstrate his speed and eye/hand oneness to a bunch of pugnacious ronin who thought that a wretch like he appeared to be had no business with those nice swords...
Mas Oyama is a more recent phenomenon, whom I chiefly remember as the karateka who allegedly killed a bull with his bare hands.

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The sword cannot cut itself, the eye cannot see itself.
 
DocPat2511, I agree with analysis. However you are saying the same thing Keating is saying, he just neglects to mention the initial force disadvantage of the longer blade. Another example is the catapults we build to fling food at each other as children. This was the main reason I was curious about using the off hand to reinforce the back of the blade at close quarters to overcome the force disadvantage.

A khukuri with a moment of inertia closer to the handle should reduce the amount of wrist strength required to get the blade moving. The optimal large blade will probably be balanced so that the terminal velocity can be reached quickly without the need to apply an excess amount of wrist force.

The fly swatter is light and reaches the maximum velocity quickly. Would the air movement in front of the blade move the fly to safety if the flats of the blade is used as a fly swatter? Shooting flies out of the air at 100 YRD is fun with a .300 Win Mag. I have never hit one but have found a few stunned ones from near misses.

Will


[This message has been edited by Will Kwan (edited 03-18-2001).]
 
Thank you Will. I think. I feel so much better now.

I've never done that to flys with a .300 Magnum though a friend did hunt jackrabbits with his 458 ( the 500 grain solids weren't really necessary ). I never did, but then I didn't have dies for reloading it.

( If I keep this up I'll have myself convinced in a week that I don't need my medication anymore! )

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Rusty
 
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