FMA and the leathernecks

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Oct 22, 2000
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Many of us have heard the story of why Marines were issued protective neck gators during the campaign in the Filipines as an endorsement for the deadly nature of FMA. The deadly efficiency of FMA is not being questioned in this thread. I repeat: The deadly efficiency of FMA is not being questioned. Has anybody ever confirmed this story with Marine Corp archives? The reason why I ask, is that British Marines are nicknamed "bootnecks" because of a high leather collar on one of their old uniforms. As a student of history, I would suspect a more likely connection between the nicknames "bootneck" and "leatherneck". If I am wrong, I apologize for questioning the tale. I am fully prepared to have my suspicion proven incorrect. If anybody has done actual historical research on this commonly circulated story in the FMA community, I would be interested in just knowing of it. I also want to say that my questioning of this story in no way reflects a doubt in the integrity of those FMA-ists who have faith in the story.
 
Hello

I am currently doing research on this subject. While I have no idea about the true origins of the term there are a few things to consider. One leather collars were not standard issue, but were improvised by soldiers stationed in the Philippines. A common method of attack against these soldiers was decapitation. Now both these can be confirmed, however the reasoning as to why each individual would take the time making this leather collar, and whether or not because of this they were given the name is up to speculation.
 
I believe that there has been significant discussion of this topic on the Eskrima Digest. I've been receiving it for a long time, so I don't clearly recall how I originally got on. However, if your search engines don't pull it up, let me know and I'll find out how to access it.

There has also been a lot of debate over whether the 45ACP was really developed in response to inadequacies found in the 38 during the conflicts in the Philippines.
 
I think the leather collars came about when some officer decided that the grunts looked like they were having too much fun! ;)

Seriously though, I have a tough time believing a leather collar would save a person from a bolo unless the blow was off target anyway. Obviously, any protection would be better than nothing, but ... However, what I do have an easier time buying into is that they may have been protection against 2 common methods of sentry neutralization ... sneaking up behind and cutting the throat or garoting. It would make sense that when faced with a better armed enemy (the filipinos typically had a bolo and the marines had firearms), the filipinos would have resorted to ambush tactics. I would imagine (never having tried it) that a thick leather collar would be pretty effective against these types of attacks.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton
 
Originally posted by Federico
One leather collars were not standard issue, but were improvised by soldiers stationed in the Philippines. A common method of attack against these soldiers was decapitation. Now both these can be confirmed, however the reasoning as to why each individual would take the time making this leather collar, and whether or not because of this they were given the name is up to speculation.

It was in fact issued at one time. It did exist for approximately 100 years in The Marine Corps.

It was basically to keep the head held high. The Leather Stock was adopted in the late 1700s and was discarded in the late 1800s, I believe just a few years before The Philippine Insurrection began.

Now, was it reissued with the belief it might help in Close Combat given the legendary ability of the Filipino people with blades? I don't know. And no one can probably say for sure.

As Dave suggested, it's not going to do a whole hell of a lot of good.

It remains a beautiful piece of nostalgia from one of the finest Fighting Units the World has ever known, or had the severe discomfort of being on the wrong end of.

Because they are Marines, by their very name, they tend to fight on or near water. [DUH!] Anyway, to avoid sniping friendlies from the Crow's Nest, they developed the idea that Officers should take a short length of rope, twist it and pin it to the top of their hat so the Marines way up above the deck could identify fellow Marines and not shoot them.

Look at the dress hats of today. There is a design on it commemorating that practice.

USMC Officers have a "Mameluke," their Sword. That sword comes from the War with Tripoli in the early 1800s.

The red stripe down the legs of the dress blues signifies blood lost during the War with Mexico.

From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli.

Everything means something!

The .38 Revolver being replaced by the Colt M1911 .45 Caliber Semi-Automatic handgun is another debate.

If we are speaking of the Philippine Insurrection at the turn of the century, 1800-1900, the M1911 in Prototype, if I remember correctly, was not in any great number at the time. I believe the Patent was issued to John Browning about 1905 or 1907, "1911" being the year of adoption.

Remember something, however, the great strength of the Filipino Arts is that it can be taught quickly, for battlefield effectiveness. Not every Filipino on a given battlefield is going to perform the way we imagine they would. People make mistakes.

In my opinion, it is entirely possible the Leather Stock came back into favor just from the bright idea of one Marine who may have seen a beheading in close combat. Know what I mean? Things like that spread like wildfire.

Lots of guys in combat will carry all manner of junk for good luck, etc. This might be a true story, but the protection it would offer would be nothing if the blow landed square.

What it could allow for is a counterstroke with a bayonet on a rifle, or in a turn, in close combat, a glancing blow, minimal damage, I shoot or thrust you.

Close combat, like the street but magnified, is confused and hectic.

That's about all the information I have and is a good synopsis of my opinion.

It sure is a great discussion though! Isn't it? Great stuff.
 
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