Folder comfortable /w reverse edge in?

G

Glasgow_kiss

Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
53
Hello, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. I've liked knives for a long time, but own mostly fixed blades, my only folders being a Spydie Endura and a small Buck.

Anyway, to the point:

I'm looking for a good folder for utility/defensive use. Because of the style that I practice, the folder should be comfortable with an edge in reverse grip, which doesn't seem to be very common.

Of course it would be exellent if the knife would be good for utility use, since it's a knife's primary function anyway.

The BM 710 looks promising, not too curved a handle or notches for the forefinger.

Anyone have any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks!
 
how much cash are you willing to spend? thats an important detail. do you like the hole or the stud? some things to think about...:D
 
Of course I forgot the details ! :-)

I'm not that partial to any opening style, as long as it's well made. When speed is of the essence inertial opening would be the way to go, I guess. It would be nice if the knife wouldn't have it's blade protruding too much when closed, so it could be used as a pocket stick.

Price range, that's a difficult thing to say, considering that I'm in Europe and we have all kinds of extra charges for US. knives, but I'm not prepared to pay *more* than say.. 150-180$ or so. If a quality knife would be cheaper, then that would be just great.

So that rules out a Sebenza. :-)
 
I would go for an Emerson Commander or Mini Commander. Both feel great in a reverse grip and you can't open a knife faster than the wave. Depending on the size of your hands, you might also make use of the skull crusher on the pommel. Also look at the Gunting.
Matt
 
I'm sure they're great with a reverse grip, but what about the edge in reverse grip, where the cutting side of the blade is facing towards you. The commander grip looks very ergonomic in a forward grip, but that usually means that it isn't very comfortable the other way around...

The gunting is a good idea too, but a sharp part of the handle will probably face my palm with the forementioned grip, making it uncomfortable.
 
I can personally attest to the fact that the Gunting is phenomenal in edge-in reverse grip. Out of all my folders, in fact, it is the best one I have for Pikal grip. It also can be used for closed techniques that you seem interested in. Carry is kind of a PITA but there are options out there.

I think the biggest concern for using a folder in Pikal isn't the ergos but the lock. Many locks will fail if you grip them this way. The compression lock on the Gunting though is perfectly fine in Pikal.
 
I agree, lockbacks, in particular, are a real hazard with the edge in reverse grip (or pakal or pikal), because your finger actually is on the release... not good. A boye den't wouldn't help with that either.

The axis lock and the compression lock seem solid for defensive uses.

The gunting seems like a good choice, if the protrusions don't dig in to the palm, like I thought they would. It even has a dedicated trainer. The blade to handle ratio doesn't seem that exellent though.
 
SOG Pentagon Elite is comfortable in any grip, and the blade is completely inside the handle. It is dagger-esque, with a very smooth solid lock thanks to SOG's Arc-Lock (very similar to the BM Axis) It has thick steel liners like the 710 but they are not exposed. It is IMO the best designed defensive folder I own...more so than the 710. The downsides are it only comes with combo-edge and it is not a "super steel"...although AUS8 is a good steel it isnt very trendy right now. The Zytel handle it tough and the checkering is grippy but not too aggressive. It can easily be opened as fast as an auto without ever touching the blade and with minimal wrist motion. Unlike the Axis, the Arc pushes the blade out about a 1/4 of an inch releasing the detent and just a bit of encouragement gets it out and locked. The "sharks tooth" really helps get cuts started for utility (I have yet to stick it in a human, but I imagine it would help there too)

And you can get it for about 50 bucks or for a bit more...a big-ass version of it.



PE1.jpg
 
Funny, I couldn't disenguage the lockbar on all my Spyderco lockbacks in a reverse grip....
Like other says, Try the gunting, it should perform quite well in different grips.
 
The problems with the gunting are that it doesn't seem to be a very good knife for EDC utility use, although I think it will manage. It does seem very agressive, not very PC, and probably will frighten people. It's also very visible because of the high carry. I do like a lot of it's features though.

The SOG knife seems nice too, the only problems are the serrations, which I don't like much on knives, and the dagger-esque look. It might be claimed as a dagger (especially if it's used in self-defence), which equals time in jail...
 
Perhaps you should consider the James Keating designed Chinook from Spyderco?
I believe it was designed to effective in all grips...YMMV

-SB
[edited to add link to pic]

From 1SKS.com:
sc-63g.jpg
 
The Chinook is another awesome-looking blade with a pretty neutral handle. I've looked at it before, but it's a lockback... I can disengage the lock on my Endura by just gripping it hard with the edge-in reverse grip (one finger goes directly over the lock release). The lock of the Chinook is supposedly very strong, but I'm very concerned about accidentally releasing it.
 
Al Mar SERE 2000...

I just purchased one last week on the recommendations of people on this board and its an amazing knife. Feels great in all grips and its utility is awesome. I'm still a knife newbie but I really think this would meet your needs.

I don't know about the pocket stick idea, but it could certainly be used to reinforce a fist.

Mark
 
The "pocket stick"-thing is considering a situation where one doesn't have enough time to get the knife open. If it's a bit like a pocket stick when closed it can be used to strike without it flinging out of your hand what would probably happen with Spydercos that have a very protruding blade because of the hole. I wouldn't consider using a knife in a SD situation open or closed, if it wasn't a life or death situation.

I've heard good things about the S2K, must be an exellent knife. Too bad it's a bit pricey.
 
Edited cos I suggested the wrong knives.... I should go to sleep at this times instead of wasting time in here :D
 
Glasgow_kiss, I use almost exclusively the forward grip, so I do not have any particular advice on what would be the best reverse grip knife; however, I have several of the knives mentioned and if I can add my 0.02:

- Al Mar S2K: great knife, both for utility and SD; it can be had for 120-130$ online, plus shipping; USPS Global priority service to Europe should be about 20-35$ (depending on weight), so it should be into your price range; one vendor, with whom I have had some personal good past dealings is BestKnives (I am certain there are others, this is just one that I know of; there are not that many, however, that service international orders), and here is a link to the appropriate page: http://www.bestknives.com/almarsere2000.html

- Chinook: great steel, and the lockback is VERY strong, I doubt it could be accidentally disengaged (remember, however, that I do not use it in reverse grip, so it's just an opinion, not "verified" experience);

- BM 710: very nice knife; I have not had it for very long, however, and right now I would personally prefer the S2K;

- Commander: there are a lot of different opinions and posts on this and ; I have it, I like it, great opening, probably much better for SD than utility.
 
Okay, just a first comment since some people seem to think Glasgow_kiss is looking for a knife to use in regular reverse grip. Edge-In reverse grip holds the knife backwards, with the edge INWARDS, instead of out.
Despite arguments, I think this is the BEST way to hold a defensive folder, for close combat... or at least the best reverse grip, as situational factors, including time and what you cand o in that time, may require saber grip, or make only that possible. But, its still nice to see someone else who likes edge In reverse grip. I really think its superior, and its a grip that doesnt put stress against the lock of the knife, during use, all force is against the stop pin, and not the lock.

If you can find it an old Kershaw Talon hawkbill folder would be GREAT for edge in, altho the blade is a bit short compared to others suggested.

Of knives I have experiance with...
The Emerson Commander, great shape overall. I carry one daily. And it does work in Edge In, grip might not be perfect, but it really does work, and its not uncomfortable, not painfully so.

Emerson CQC-7a (or B, I just kinda preffer A, the spear point), is an EXCELLENT! folder for Edge In reverse grip. Feels great. I dont think you could go wrong by getting one.
I dont know if thye are making the A model with a wave, but if you dont mind a B model, get one with a Wave... its an excellent thing to have for an Edge In folder.

With a Waved folder as you draw the knife from your pocket,t he Wave catches, and pulls the blade open... from there all you have to do is the simple motion of rotating it downwards, axis of the pivot being between the thumb and forfinger you were pinching the knife with to draw it. This rotates it right around into the hand... the handle into the hand that is, the blade stays safely out of your hand. Done this a lot of times, it works great.
The other thing is, this takes less fine motor skill, than working your hand up into a solid saber grip, or pivoting and rotating the knife in the hand, for an Edge Out reverse grip.
For a pictorial on this draw, and getting the knif einto grip check out this thread http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1294 its about a different knife, but the concepts apply all the same. Great thread for anyone into Edge In grip.


As for lock-backs... I actually do carry either a Spyderco Endura or a Delica, which I modified with a Wave and a Boye detent in the lockbar... witht he intention to deploy them as Edge In tools. I am not overly concerned with the lock failing, since I ground a boye detent into the lock bars. It seems pretty safe to me, in my training. And no pressure is applied to the back of the blades, in Edge In use, only pressure against the edg, which pushes them back into a full open position if they did come un-locked. But really, I am not concerned.
For more details on my mods to them, look here.

Another one you might wanna look into, would be the Gerber Applegate Fairbairn folders... looks to me like they might be good for this grip. And they are pretty "stabby" too.

A Spyderco Harpy might also be a cool choice for Edge In grip. And i dunno how the handle would be, but I think it would be comfortable, an Emerson P-Sark would be an option too.

My first choice though would be a Waved Emerson CQC-7, or a P-Sark.
 
satin is correct in describing the edge-in reverse grip. I too feel that it's an exellent way to use short knives defensively. Difficult to disarm and has stopping power.

The price on the CQC-7 wave looks ok to me and the wave is definitely and exellent feature, even though it can be replicated with a dremel or a zip tie (doesn't work consistently on an endura though). Anyone have any comments on the durability of the Emerson black coating? The satin finish might be a better choice(?), not as scary-looking either.

The bad thing is that I can't find any dealers in Europe that would have the waved version of the CQC-7. Anybody know one? The old version can be found at Toolshop, for example. Ordering from the states is possible, but it's a big hassle. Plus customs, etc. can jack up the total price of the blade by 50% and then there are the shipping costs as well.. :(

I found the S2K at Toolshop, but it's a whopping 229 euro (no shipping costs).

I've heard about the bottle-opener Talon before, but it's almost impossible to find. :( The Applegate fairbairn is too dagger-like, a bit risky considering knife laws.

The P-sark doesn't seem as versatile for everyday stuff as the CQC-7.

Thanks for all your input, guys. I really value it!
 
The Buck-Strider feels pretty much the same with any type of grip-- boxy. :) It's uncomfortable to hold on to for extended periods of time, but the grip is pretty secure.
 
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