Folder Comparison

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csmats

Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
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I was at a family gathering for my nephew who was on leave after completing jump school and is on his way to the 173rd in Italy. He had his gear out organizing it for when he had to go back, so I was looking and noticed that his EDC is a Spyderco Para 2. I have a similar sized knife that I keep in my briefcase, the A.G. Russell Black Dragon frame lock.

Specs: Para 2 blade length 3.44" S30V, Black Dragon 3.5" 8Cr13MoV (drop point); blade thickness .14, .125; handle length 4.81", 4.5"; weight 3.9 oz, 4.1 oz; handle thickness .46, no spec given for the Black Dragon but it looks at least 10% thinner; handle material both G10.

The Para 2 is a beautiful knife, so I bought one. I won't say anything about the steels as I'm sure that's covered at length (or more?) elsewhere, except to say that A.G.'s 8Cr13MoV gets good reviews. The Para 2 is definitely smoother than the BD -- it's not even close, and it's a brand new Para 2 against a worn-in BD -- but the BD works exactly as it should. In addition to two thumb studs, the BD has a flipper that doubles as a small lower guard when opened. The Para 2 has three spacer posts, two rear one forward, while the BD has just the two rear, probably because of the flipper, which offers a cost-efficient, very real benefit in place of a more costly front post. But that front post on the Para 2 is a big help in a hard-use knife -- it clearly strengthens both the lock and overall torque resistance at a critical juncture.

The BD has a deep carry clip but comes with a regular clip. It doesn't make much difference to me personally, but the deep carry clip looks inherently more susceptible to breakage in a hard-use knife. The compression lock is very well-engineered but that frame lock is just beefier than the liner part of the compression lock system. On the other hand, the Para 2's front post...

Carrying them around the thinness of the BD is noticeable. The weight is distributed over a slightly wider, flatter outline and combined with the deep carry clip it fairly disappears in the pocket. Handling the knives, that thin-wide feels a bit less fitted to the hand and the Para 2 feels more secure. That said, the BD is still designed with considerable attention to ergonomics and the real-world differences would probably be trivial to most users.

The BD cost me exactly 1/3 of the Para 2. I don't think the comparison of 3 BD's to 1 Para 2 is any use because the Para 2 is just a much better-made knife of much better blade steel and those things have a lot of real value. The way I look at it is I work in an office so my knife isn't a hard-use knife. My nephew is Airborne -- his knife is a hard-use knife. But now I have two nice knives that are very different in some ways and yet basically the same where it really counts for my personal requirements. Two knives to rotate as my briefcase knife ... which just mostly means that I have another knife to play with as my wife looks at me and shakes her head.
 
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Yeah I have a para 2 and it's my go to carry knife but I'd hardly call it a hard use knife. It's a GREAT knife but has a very thin sharp tip that could fairly easily break if torqued at all.
 
Love the PM2 a great knife. I went with the pm2 in carbonfiber and M4 steel. It's even more lightweight than the g10 version and the steel has higher edge retention and edge stability. Gotta love spyderco and there availability of options.

Just don't pry with that tip. It can bend or crack. Another knife in this range that's also excellent and often compared to the pm2 is the cold steel American lawman. some prefer over the pm2. It comes in xhp steel but it's being phased out for s35vn steel which are both a slight upgrade over s30v. It's also a hard use knife. Has a bigger tip geometry than the pm2.

Edit: the para3 is an awesome knife too and it's a bit smaller and more pocket friendly. I also love the Delica a great edc knife from spyderco.
 
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I second the motion that the PM2 isn't a hard use knife, it's a great slicer and a great EDC that cuts like a knife should. The Shaman on the other hand I'd call hard use, I don't pry with my knives, but if the tip of a knife looks like it'll break off if I look at it too hard, it's not hard use, and both the Millie and the PM2 fall in that category. I still love'm as EDC's though.
 
This has absolutely nothing to do with your original post, but tell your nephew to check out the Jumpmaster or Jumpmaster 2. Either would also make a great gift for him.
 
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First off, congrats on getting the PM2. It’s a great knife. Enjoy.

Second, I’m not entirely sure I understand the point of the post. You compared two knives from two different companies, that have very different price points, different blade steels, different blade shapes, different locks, different opening methods, and different intended uses and your conclusion is that they are.... different.

I promise I don’t intend this to sound snarky. I just want to make sure I’m not missing a profound point here.
 
Either one will work just fine for him. I carried a SAK Farmer and issued Gerber 300 for 90% of my active duty and during deployments.
 
All of you who are saying the Para 2 isn't a hard-use knife, what are you comparing it to? Fixed blades? People are criticizing yet I haven't seen another folder named for hard-use. The only other knife named is the Cold Steel Lawman as an equal, which I can get behind.

Stop snobbing, knife people, I'm a newbie who came with good will and honest thoughts that I think, no, that I know are valid thoughts. I compared two knives at far different price points playing in the same space from my own personal first-hand experience. That's not worth a look-see? If you don't think so, then you're not intellectually curious enough and I have to ask, why'd you even read my post in the first place?
 
csmats said:
All of you who are saying the Para 2 isn't a hard-use knife, what are you comparing it to? Fixed blades? People are criticizing yet I haven't seen another folder named for hard-use. The only other knife named is the Cold Steel Lawman as an equal, which I can get behind.

Stop snobbing, knife people, I'm a newbie who came with good will and honest thoughts that I think, no, that I know are valid thoughts. I compared two knives at far different price points playing in the same space from my own personal first-hand experience. That's not worth a look-see? If you don't think so, then you're not intellectually curious enough and I have to ask, why'd you even read my post in the first place?
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We're too busy arguing about Instagram to encourage someone in their actual knife enthusiasm.
 
csmats said:
All of you who are saying the Para 2 isn't a hard-use knife, what are you comparing it to? Fixed blades? People are criticizing yet I haven't seen another folder named for hard-use. The only other knife named is the Cold Steel Lawman as an equal, which I can get behind.

Stop snobbing, knife people, I'm a newbie who came with good will and honest thoughts that I think, no, that I know are valid thoughts. I compared two knives at far different price points playing in the same space from my own personal first-hand experience. That's not worth a look-see? If you don't think so, then you're not intellectually curious enough and I have to ask, why'd you even read my post in the first place?
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:) You've actually gotten a fairly nice response, so far . From your join date , I'd think you would know this forum better . It' often quite contentious and can be snobbish as well . But many of us are really nice , especially ME ! :rolleyes:

I don't have either knife you've compared . The PM 2 has a great reputation , but you do pay for the better Spyderco models .

IMO the best value in medium "hard use " folders is from Cold Steel . Lawman , AK47 , Recon 1 , etc . Better steel and HT along with the very strong Tri-ad lock .

For extreme hard use , Cold Steel 4 Max . But its not cheap or easy to carry . SR 1 and Bush Ranger are in-between .

Of the above , I have only the AK47 folder and the Recon 1 . They are both excellent , durable knives and fairly easy to carry . :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:

If the primary need is for strength and reliability (and ease of field maintenance/cleaning) , your best solution at a reasonable price will be a fixed blade .
 
On this forum people have certain terms that are agreed upon to describe aspects of a knife. So op, when you said hard use you got misunderstood. In this age we have a lot of hard use folders out there. Pm2 is a nice edc knife and it works well when you are out in a bush too as secondary knife. I like spyderco military though as it is long enough to cut a muffin comfortably. You gotta chill bro. I feel like you going to leave us be for couple more years after this thread. Don't go away just yet.
 
I think this thread is salvageable. So it will remain open.
However, the posts need to center on the knives, not on other posters.

This is General Forum. Leave out the profanity and references to it.
 
Yeah this got way sideways. Chill out a skosh man. When I said the para 2 wasnt really a hard use knife I didnt mean it's bad. Like someone else said in this day and age there are knives known as hard use folders. Zt 301, 0550, benchmade contego, adamas, lots of cold steel folders. There are a ton of over built folders that can handle serious abuse. Like I said earlier though, the para 2 is a fantastic knife! And it's my main carry knife. No need to get super defensive.
 
I actually liked the OP. I enjoyed hearing csmats thoughts on a PM 2 compared to one of A. G.'s offerings. I've owned several of his knives and they've always been well made and useful, so the comparison to a proven "gold-standard" knife was interesting to me. Like Sergeua said, I think "hard-use" may have taken us down a rabbit hole. I agree the PM 2 isn't what I'd call a hard use knife, but it works fine in an outdoor setting or around a campsite if it's used within its design parameters.

I've used PM's, PM 2's, and Militaries for years hiking and camping with no damage to any part of the knife. My first PM was one of the early ones with "dino-jimping". I've had at least one in my rotation ever since. They've always worked, they've worked hard (my current garage beater is an old, early-model PM), and they keep coming back for more. A PM 2 is what I carry most of the time these days. They're outstanding as everyday, "whatever..." knives at least for my day-to-day needs. And that may be why his nephew is carrying one in his kit. Not for really hard use, but for the daily, "whatever" kinds of stuff that may come up.

OP, I hope you enjoy the PM 2 as much as I've enjoyed mine. I've never found anything to equal it for daily carry and use. And congratulations to your nephew for accomplishing something that many of us would never even consider undertaking.
 
csmats said:
I was at a family gathering for my nephew who was on leave after completing jump school and is on his way to the 173rd in Italy. He had his gear out organizing it for when he had to go back, so I was looking and noticed that his EDC is a Spyderco Para 2. I have a similar sized knife that I keep in my briefcase, the A.G. Russell Black Dragon frame lock.

Specs: Para 2 blade length 3.44" S30V, Black Dragon 3.5" 8Cr13MoV (drop point); blade thickness .14, .125; handle length 4.81", 4.5"; weight 3.9 oz, 4.1 oz; handle thickness .46, no spec given for the Black Dragon but it looks at least 10% thinner; handle material both G10.

The Para 2 is a beautiful knife, so I bought one. I won't say anything about the steels as I'm sure that's covered at length (or more?) elsewhere, except to say that A.G.'s 8Cr13MoV gets good reviews. The Para 2 is definitely smoother than the BD -- it's not even close, and it's a brand new Para 2 against a worn-in BD -- but the BD works exactly as it should. In addition to two thumb studs, the BD has a flipper that doubles as a small lower guard when opened. The Para 2 has three spacer posts, two rear one forward, while the BD has just the two rear, probably because of the flipper, which offers a cost-efficient, very real benefit in place of a more costly front post. But that front post on the Para 2 is a big help in a hard-use knife -- it clearly strengthens both the lock and overall torque resistance at a critical juncture.

The BD has a deep carry clip but comes with a regular clip. It doesn't make much difference to me personally, but the deep carry clip looks inherently more susceptible to breakage in a hard-use knife. The compression lock is very well-engineered but that frame lock is just beefier than the liner part of the compression lock system. On the other hand, the Para 2's front post...

Carrying them around the thinness of the BD is noticeable. The weight is distributed over a slightly wider, flatter outline and combined with the deep carry clip it fairly disappears in the pocket. Handling the knives, that thin-wide feels a bit less fitted to the hand and the Para 2 feels more secure. That said, the BD is still designed with considerable attention to ergonomics and the real-world differences would probably be trivial to most users.

The BD cost me exactly 1/3 of the Para 2. I don't think the comparison of 3 BD's to 1 Para 2 is any use because the Para 2 is just a much better-made knife of much better blade steel and those things have a lot of real value. The way I look at it is I work in an office so my knife isn't a hard-use knife. My nephew is Airborne -- his knife is a hard-use knife. But now I have two nice knives that are very different in some ways and yet basically the same where it really counts for my personal requirements. Two knives to rotate as my briefcase knife ... which just mostly means that I have another knife to play with as my wife looks at me and shakes her head.
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Good post and nicely done. Writing up reviews and comparisons can be tedious but it's also fun to go through the points you want to cover as you consider the pros and cons. You've also done folks like me a service as I don't own either of these knives. I've settled on my brands and styles and this sort of post is about the only way I'll experience those knives.

Please tell your nephew congratulations on his graduation from Jump School. Job well done!

Zieg
 
If you are happy with 8cr13MoV, you may take a look at the Tenacious (or that line family as there are smaller and larger iterations of the design) they are made in China, but the 2 I've had (and gifted) had good fit and finish and is a similar blade shape to the Para2. (I prefer higher edge retention steels like S30V and up, but my father preferred easier to touch up steels like 8Cr).
 
Thanks to your nephew for his service.

I think in active duty, hard use might best be filled by a fixed blade. The PM2 is a great, general use EDC knife though. As others have said, the tip is fairly fine and can be easily damaged. I kinda boogered the tip of my first PM2.

Thanks for sharing your observations.
 
I'm confused what people consider "hard use". The tip on the PM2 might chip off but otherwise its an excellent knife and the lock isn't going to fail you. What "hard use" can the PM2 not stand up to?
 
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