Folder Limits??? Opinions needed

Robert Hankins

Robert Hankins

Joined
May 19, 2003
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Looking at some of the "Tactical Folders" out there I see many that look just too darn big/heavy for EDC.
In your opinion what are the limits for a strong folder?
IE: Blade thickness
OAL
Closed length
Weight
Lock style
Handle material Etc

How would you have one made?
 
My limits would depend in part on what I am doing that particular day. If I have to wear a suit, a smaller, lighter knife is in order than if I am going out in the woods. That being said, in general I find a blade thickness of .125” to .141” about the right balance of strength to cutting ability. Besides, most folding mechanisms will give out before 9/64” thick steel breaks. Blade length 3” to 3 ½ “ with a handle of 4” to 4 ½”, giving overall length of 7” to 8”. Weight could be up to 5 ounces in heavier clothing. I favor mid-lock or lock back for its inherent simplicity of manufacture or possible the one piece concept from A. G. Russell or Pat Crawford. Liner/Framelocks are simple in concept, very hard to do consistently. Handle material could be natural or synthetic, either can be made “gripable” and safe if the design is good. Hope this helps. What do you mean when you ask “How would you have one made?”.
 
I suspect that actual limits are a lot higher than any of us tend to think. With horizontal belt carry I could easily carry a pound of knife up to 8" long closed, 2" wide, and 1" thick, and I probably wouldn't really notice. I carry handguns that are bigger, and much heavier.

My personal concept of the upper limit has more to do with when the length of the handle needed to cover the blade becomes awkward. I think that occcurs somewhere just north of 6". The Maxx and Aftermath models with 5-1/2" blades have very comfortable handles, but the 7-1/4" versions feel unwieldy to me.

For pocket carry I prefer to keep the weight under 8 oz, the closed length under 6", and the thickness under 1/2". Thickness is my biggest factor, followed by weight, and then length. A slim and comparatively light folder can be huge without causing inconvenience in daily carry, where a little more thickness gets uncomfortable really fast.

And now you've heard from the pointy-end of the bell curve... ;)

--Bob Q
 
What I meant by "If you could have one made" statement is: If there were a Mfg that would build a folder for you; What would an ideal configuration of Materials Etc be for you?
 
Blinker, ideal for me would start with something like the design of the Camillus Dominator. Blade thickness, steel and heat treat are good as is. I would change the grind to a hollow, similar to CRK Sebenza; instead of frame lock I would do it in a mid-lock configuration. Since it would be a mid-lock the flipper would have to go, as well as the assist mechanism. I find the shape of the handle ideal for my hand, so the only thing I would do there is add a little more material in front of the index finger cut out to act as a guard since the flipper wouldn’t be there. I would increase the size of the pivot and use the largest bronze bushings that would fit. I would also incorporate the blade bushing ala Sebenza. The knife should also have the ability to be taken apart by the consumer. This might be more difficult in a mid-lock style, but I believe it could be done. The Ti. slabs would be fine for a using knife, but if I wanted to add scales, I would do it Ron Lake style and make it an interframe setup. I would still use the thumb stud for one hand opening. I start with the Dominator, because it is the most comfortable folder I have used and also the largest I have a need to carry on a daily basis. Hope this helps, if you need more information, just ask.

Richard
 
My ideal choose of materials for folder is:
1. Premium steel blade (no serration)- CPM S30V, CPM S60V, CPM S90V, ATS-34, VG-10, BG-42, M2, A2, D2, 52-100, Bulat, SGPS, CovryX, triple laminated... I am very flexible here. Preferably heat treated by Paul Boss.
2. TiAlNi, TiNi or BC blade coatring.
3. Titanium liners.
4. MOD lock (plunge lock), Axis lock, Liner lock OK (did not have E-lock yet).
5. 3D G10 handle, or machined aluminium handle with inserts (G10 or what MOD uses).

However, good knife not nesseseraly should have all this options, usually for good knife you may feel it right away, and it is hard to explain rationally.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Blinker said:
Looking at some of the "Tactical Folders" out there I see many that look just too darn big/heavy for EDC.
In your opinion what are the limits for a strong folder?
IE: Blade thickness
OAL
Closed length
Weight
Lock style
Handle material Etc

How would you have one made?
Click to expand...

hmm, let's see, my perfect folder and personal max. limits would be something like this:

-brand: spyderco (for the opening-hole)
-Blade thickness: max. 3/16", ideally 2/16"
-OAL: max. 10", ideally 8.5"
-Closed length: max. 6", ideally 5"
-Weight: max. 170 gram (8 oz.), ideally 90 gram
-Lock style: liner, frame, front,...;whatever, it all works for me.
-Handle material: g10, steel, micarta, wood.
-type: tactical do-it-all knife

most importantly to me though is how it feels while carrying in the pocket, how easy it is to draw, how good a clip it has (MUST have a clip always) and how ergo it is in the hand. my perfect folder would probably be something like a crossbreed between a Spyderco Military and an ATR.

dennis
 
I guess I am just a little less inclined to carry a heavier pocket knife.
Suprised a little to see a 3/16" thick blade mentioned.
Would a 1/4" thick deep hollow grind be overkill???
Opinions
 
have a fixed blade with a 5" blade of 1/4" 440c... tichbourne moose.

Turn that into a folder and you'd have a great knife for edc in jeans...

I wear dress pants and slacks most of the time though... try tossing more than 3oz on the pocket and it sags.
 
Personaly I like heavy knives, especially if you are talking about tactial knives. I think if you like to use it "tactically" you should be able to hit as hard as possible and for this heavyness one of the factor - it add more inertia to you hand, it feel armed (some kind of prehistoric memory flash - I am human now, I am armed!).

Thick blade is better - it will not break in impact and you will not think it will break so you will not limit your hit force. I think thick blade is good. I really like SOG Tomcat for this (and for blade shape - very "tactical" and "selfdefenced").

SOG-Tomcat-07.jpg


Even more important IMHO is very good grip and protection for palm to sliding to the blade, without this, fear will limit youself and hit will not be strong enough. I think Spyderco Manix is good example of an excellent grip. Handle is better be thick also, it will fill your palm better.

Spyderco-Manix-14.jpg


Also I like gravity center to be in the middle of the handle - like Buck 110, because knife will stay in the hand even you relax it and will not duck forward - so you will pay less attention and effort to keep knife in your hand. It just feel much more comfortable and balanced.

Buck110C-01.jpg


However - people, probaly, need some kind of accessory which fits pocket, cuts boxes and only looks tactical. I am different, I had Buck 880 as an EDC for a while. I always get rid of clip - it ruines good grip IMHO.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nice pics Vassili! i think though a folder without pocket-clip is not good in SD-situations, what you need is quick deployment. just a thought..... :o
 
Hi All-
Blinker said:
<...snip...> Surprised a little to see a 3/16" thick blade mentioned. Would a 1/4" thick deep hollow grind be overkill? Opinions
Click to expand...
Sometimes it seems that carry of two knives is the ticket. While mine is a tiny fixed blade, I do own this particular Busse Pepper Shaker in 1/4" hollow grind. Normally a knife this thick wouldn't be too good of a slicer, but the grind here takes care of that concern. It is a fantastic blade.

For a folder, my tendency is to go with G10 grips, an opening hole, blade length of 4.00" or less, and a maximum thickness of 1/8" or so.

~ Blue Jays ~
 
fits my hand like a glove. I've got the older 800 Lefty model, liner lock, PS blade in ATS-34 (thickness? around 1/8"), G-10 scales over titanium liners. I keep looking at the 806D2 because I really like PE blades and tip up carry. It's a little on the long side (I wouldn't mind if it was 10% smaller) but at just over 4oz. I don't notice it in pocket. If I were to have one designed from the ground up the AFCK is the knife I would use as a template.

Frank
 
Hi SilverFoxKnows-

Wouldn't you just love for the folks at Benchmade to manufacture a true roundhole Mini-AFCK with one of the newer blade steels coupled with the AXIS lock technology? That would be an all-time keeper. It would be a tough little combination with plenty of belly for day-to-day utilitarian purposes.

Les de Asis, we're talking to you! :)

~ Blue Jays ~
 
I'm fairly lenient when it comes to handle material and blade-steel,
and I don't mind a folder with a full-size handle (like the Spyderco Military or Endura or Benchmade Griptilian).

Blade thickness: no more than 1/8"

Weight: this is the real deal-killer when I look at folders. I don't want to carry a folder that weighs more than 4oz.

Lock: No liner-locks and I'm not too thrilled with frame-locks either. So I prefer lockbacks and Axis-lock folders.

So far the Benchamade 551 Griptilian has been my best EDC, except when wearing shorts at the gym--then it's the 556 Mini-Griptilian!

Allen.
 
When you describe a knife as "tactical" I interpret that as a knife for offensive/defensive bladework. So IMO blade shape, handle security and ease of deployment are more important then the knifes ability to deconstruct a hummer be used as a ladder rung. For me the ideal knife would look alot like an Emerson Persian with a slightly wider blade and somewhat shorter handle. I would add a wave opener or perhaps wave/hole combo. Materials would be g10 and s30v and I would probably go with a lockback, compression lock or in mydreams a spyderco ball bearing lock.

In regards to your questions about carry limits, I have found the 5 inch bladed Vaquero Grande to be easily carried in casual clothes. My cuda max arrives today and I am looking forward to seeing how it carries.
 
Blade thickness - 3/16" max. Pivot pins are usually much weaker than most folder blades, so why reinforce something that clearly isn't the weakest link in the chain?
OAL - I regularly carry a Vaquero Grande, so I don't mind carrying a long folder, but I think 10" would be a good length.
Closed length - dunno...well...the blade/handle ratio should be as favorable as possible
Weight - as heavy as it needs to be (thick liners and pivot pin)
Lock style - well-made liner lock
Handle material Etc - G-10, ti liners, durable blade coating (DLC or something)
 
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