Folder Locks.

Cotherion

Cotherion

Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
2,588
I just got my CRKT Cascade Lockback and CRKT M16-10KZ from ebay. I'm not too familiar with folder locks (these are my first two). However to my surprise the much advertised Auto-Lawks were not too assuring compared to the much more secure lockback. I cannot imagine a little bitty piece of steel is going to stop the liner from slipping out in my inexperienced opinion.

I like to know from you all regarding folder locks. To me this is one of the most important aspect of a folder. I heard many so far... Auto-Lawks, liner, frame, arc, axis, slip etc. Which among is the most secure?

FYI, I am awaiting my Kershaw Lahar, Kershaw Junkyard Dog II and 2 numbers of Smith&Wesson Folder (one with 4 to 5mm thick tanto blade). Perhaps I'll get to compare how a reputable company like Kershaw does it's locks.

Anyone really tested the lock strengths?

PS: Yeah I've seen a type of folder called the Stratofighter from Darkops. Looks like a tank on steriods. The blade looks tough but I'm more concerned with the lock. Looks like a lockback. Anyone with one can confirm and share some experience? Also another brand called Extreme Ratio or something like Masters of Defense or something like that. Much appreciated...
 
i've always thought that lock strength went like this: frame, lockback, axis/ball, etc.
 
for me is:

1. balisong- like a fixed blade.

2. frame- dont see how it can fail, especially if you are gripping it hard.

3. lockback- very strong, but could collect sand particles in the lock and cause a failiure(i could be wrong)

4a. linerlock- providing they are not ccc's, they are very strong

4b. axis lock- dont trust springs, but heard they are VERY strong. so it rank same with linerlocks
 
I would have to agree with blazengem's rankings. However, I am only basing my opinion on design rather than experienced failures. Luckily, I have never had a knife's lock system fail on me.
 
I think both axis lock and arc lock are the same in most aspects except that one moves in an arc. I don't think i'll like the Arc lock cause the locking thingy is slid in an arc (part circle) path. I'm worried that the spring is mostly what's stopping it from failure and if the spring weakens or fails then the lock will fail. The axis lock on the other hand traves in a straight path unaffected by the "pushing out" exhibited by the arc lock. These are my theory of course. I'll actually buy one Axis and one Arc to study further.

Another humdinger is the "Deadbolt Over Grabstep" or D.O.G. sold by CRKT.

I'm glad that the lockback is generally considered stronger than the arc or axis lock. I bought my folder to last me a long time and not to fail since where I'm from, it's not easy to get another.
 
The "bolt lock" on the old Gerber bolt-action and Parabellum was very strong.
 
But is there anyone who actually did comparison tests on the many types of locks?

Claims by SOG, Benchmade, Cold Steel and other brands that their locks are great are never verified by standardized testings?
 
It's more about the fitting and care that a knife is made with, than just the type of lock. I've seen all types of locks hold up to abuse and all types fail. The cheaper the knife the higher fail rate, for example cheap lockbacks are so weak they can be defeated with little pressure. While a well made one is very secure.
 
jill jackson said:
It's more about the fitting and care that a knife is made with, than just the type of lock. I've seen all types of locks hold up to abuse and all types fail. The cheaper the knife the higher fail rate, for example cheap lockbacks are so weak they can be defeated with little pressure. While a well made one is very secure.
Click to expand...



Good point. What if we compared a range of brands deemed to be acceptable quality? Let's say Benchmade's Axis, Sog's Arc, CRKT's Auto-Lawks (and maybe D.O.G.), Cold Steel's Lockback. Of course others are also acceptable but I'm implying that these production pieces will represent the locks nicely.

I'm surprised that many brands make many ggreat claims but no basis of standardized comparison. Personally I am very new in this (I got only 2 folders and some to come and Malaysia it's kinda rare (almost illegal)).:D
 
Cotherion said:
I just got my CRKT Cascade Lockback and CRKT M16-10KZ from ebay. I'm not too familiar with folder locks (these are my first two). However to my surprise the much advertised Auto-Lawks were not too assuring compared to the much more secure lockback. I cannot imagine a little bitty piece of steel is going to stop the liner from slipping out in my inexperienced opinion.

I like to know from you all regarding folder locks. To me this is one of the most important aspect of a folder. I heard many so far... Auto-Lawks, liner, frame, arc, axis, slip etc. Which among is the most secure?

FYI, I am awaiting my Kershaw Lahar, Kershaw Junkyard Dog II and 2 numbers of Smith&Wesson Folder (one with 4 to 5mm thick tanto blade). Perhaps I'll get to compare how a reputable company like Kershaw does it's locks.

Anyone really tested the lock strengths?

PS: Yeah I've seen a type of folder called the Stratofighter from Darkops. Looks like a tank on steriods. The blade looks tough but I'm more concerned with the lock. Looks like a lockback. Anyone with one can confirm and share some experience? Also another brand called Extreme Ratio or something like Masters of Defense or something like that. Much appreciated...
Click to expand...


Search locks on here........ There is hours of reading and opinions and even *gasp!* some good facts. :)
 
rebeltf said:
Search locks on here........ There is hours of reading and opinions and even *gasp!* some good facts. :)
Click to expand...


Yeah, could have but until recent the joys of Bladeforum has been reduced. Now non-paying members (like myself) can't search so I'm going back to basics till I decide to upgrade myself one day.

Though I do not pay for my participation in Bladeforum, I contribute by writing and buying up lots of stuff in the for sale sections. I help paying members get rid of knives and stuff as well as strengthening them financially!!! :p

(I know I know, excuses excuses...)
 
Interesting recommendations - especially to use search at this time . . .

Anyway, no, there are no standardized tests, and it seems mostly opinion based on ownership. That said, an experience can be dragged forward repeatedly as if it occurred yesterday, especially if the poster has an agenda, good or bad. The rankings previously given are close - fixed blade, balisong, frame, back, axis/arc, liner, and others - button, ring, and the grand mal category of everything else. Each offers good lock up when properly made. Cheap fixed blades do break, cheap balisongs have weak pins, cheap framelocks can overtravel and jam, cheap backlocks have hard parts that shear, and cheap linerlocks have cornered the market on stupid. Any lock mechanism can be defeated by foreign objects in it. Therefore there is no guarantee that a knife will never fail.

Knowing that - and using knives with that in mind - the sharpened prybar tasks that sometimes come along should be avoided. Then lock failures would disappear completely, to be replaced by prybar success stories.

Yes, I am being a little facetious, but only because lock strength is often such a partisan issue when in fact it simply helps the user protect himself from his own misuse. I don't expect any further improvements in security will ever completely overcome the existence of a pivot pin, much less denial of the physical laws of the universe.

It's a poor answer, but the darn facts rarely fit into our fantasies.
 
Some of us grew up without having locking folders to rely on. We simply learned how to use them well.
 
I've been focusing on the lock for the wrong reason perhaps. I alays wanted the best of the strongest (where affordable!!!) but I never thought of my own performance, need some internal pondering on this... Still for the sake of discussion, let's assume that skill is a constant (adequate) and the only variable is the lock performance.
 
Hi Cotherion,

In my opinion, lock reliability has little to do with lock strength.

Keep in mind that locks on folding knives are small bits of hardened metal, carefully machined that "get in the way" to keep the blade from unintentionally folding.

Reliability, in our testing and experience, does not seem to be based on the lock design, but more on the; engineering, experience, and care taken in manufacturing. Springs used affect reliability more than strength. (Even poorly made fixed blades have been known to break).

"All skills being equal and constant", measure the strength of the "weakest" link" in the chain. Tang strength, "lock strength", pin strength, area supporting the pins, etc. When we do break tests, the weakest link will always break first.

Generally speaking, fixed blades will be the strongest. ( I've been told that "they call them fixed blades cause they aint broke" ).

Butterfly's will be as strong as the pin strength and hardness. A weak pin on a butterfly will bend or break just as easily as a weak pin on a lock-back or any other folder. The advantage of a butterfly is in the fact that its reliability does not depend on a spring.

Shorter, thicker steel parts will genereally be stronger than longer thinner steel parts.

sal
 
. The rankings previously given are close - fixed blade, balisong, frame, back, axis/arc, liner, and others - button, ring, and the grand mal category of everything else. Each offers good lock up when properly made. Cheap fixed blades do break, cheap balisongs have weak pins, cheap framelocks can overtravel and jam, cheap backlocks have hard parts that shear, and cheap linerlocks have cornered the market on stupid. Any lock mechanism can be defeated by foreign objects in it. Therefore there is no guarantee that a knife will never fail.

Knowing that - and using knives with that in mind - the sharpened prybar tasks that sometimes come along should be avoided. Then lock failures would disappear completely, to be replaced by prybar success stories.

Yes, I am being a little facetious, but only because lock strength is often such a partisan issue when in fact it simply helps the user protect himself from his own misuse. I don't expect any further improvements in security will ever completely overcome the existence of a pivot pin, much less denial of the physical laws of the universe.

It's a poor answer, but the darn facts rarely fit into our fantasies.[/QUOTE]


I agree with tirod3 that any mechanical lock can be defeated, however buying quality knives is going to narrow the possibility of failure. Also the way the user uses the knife is also a BIG factor. I have never had a lock fail, and I have used liner locks, axis locks, and back locks (I don't see how a back lock can fail though once it locks up) I also don't abuse my knives. if I have a heavy duty job I'l get the right tool for the job! Pry bar, hammer, .....blowtorch...... ect.


I just read Sal's post.

What he said!
 
I didn't consider the balisong, to me, i consider it a different class then a folder.
 
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