Folders vs. Fixed

raptor_prime

raptor_prime

Joined
Oct 29, 2001
Messages
73
I'm sure this topic has been discussed here and elsewhere, but I'm interested in what people think about using tactical folders vs. fixed blades. Obviously both have their pros and cons - folders are generally smaller and easy to carry but you have to get the blade out and lock it into place to use it. Fixed blades are not as small and easy to carry, but they are simple to pull out and use.

In my opinion the fixed blade would be the way to go because Mr. Murphy has less to mess with. If you can get your knife out of its sheath, you're good to go. Folders need to be drawn, deployed, and locked into place before they are ready for action.

Anybody else have any thoughts regarding this?
 
Hi there,
Quick question...did YOU go to the Edged Weapons Seminar??
This might help me in answering...
Thanks,
J
 
Joe, thought you were out playing.

Good to see ya here.

Anything new happening?

Take it easy,
Reed
 
What you're still up...I thought you were working for a living???!!!
I'm just looking for fun before I take off...actually, I am trying to put the finishing touches on ideas for raffling off a "Custom EB Series" blade to someone in the BFC system...or not. It's really great, about 7" blade, TS with a sharpened false edge...like a machete in appearence. :eek:

I wouldn't want someone looking for ME with this blade! Mick and I started on this idea about a month ago...it's that daylight savings time...I haven't been the same since!
Best Regards,
J
 
I agree with Mr. Raptor. I am the uninjured survivor of exactly ONE knife fight against several other people. I luckily happened to have a fixed blade (a Strider AD - I never miss an opportunity to extol this knife). Folders are great. They have many, many uses. But, my current position (based on only one encounter, mind you), is that if you rely on a folder for a fight, your attacker will be making it HIS knife as he watches you bleed out in the gutter. Use a fixed blade for fighting.
 
As the injured WINNER, not survivor, of a knife incident, I can tell you that no matter what you chose, PRACTICE, TRAIN, PRACTICE, constantly. I shot 3-4 times a week, never trained with a knife that much at all, untill one was stuck into me. The unfortunate truth of my profession is that we learn from others mistakes, and mistakes usually invole injury or death. Get formal training, and learn, take it seriously, especially if you are really going to carry it for self defense. also take the time to find out about your states laws, and possibly your county's and city's laws. Good training involves more than practicing with a knife, you must be informed on laws, and what to say(nothing untill you speak to a lawyer) if you have an incident. Take it from someone who learned the hard way, dont buy something and feel safe because you have it, feel safe because you have trained and are confident that you know how to use it.
As to preference, i would say personally i like small fixed for speed of draw and easier operation, dont have to practice draw and open. but alot of that depends on your job, how you dress everyday and where you live. But i have seen some people who can draw and open and cut VERY FAST. I think alot of it depends on your skill level and what you are better at doing. Just my opinion though, I am NOT an expert, I'm someone that learns from mistakes. Good luck with your choice.
chris
 
A good point about the need for constant training. Bladed and empty hand fighting will develop your sense of range and angles. The theory can be learned, but doesn't become useful until you have firsthand experience of how fast and in what ways people attack and defend.

Many situations will demand the ability and mindset to quickly deliver crippling or lethal blows without a knife. Hopefully this would allow the drawing of a weapon be it knife or firearm. :)

Drills with practice knives NOT drawn will show that a predictable tendency to draw within range of an opponent will lead to trapping and then falling to disadvantage ...
 
Raptor,

Although I agree with you wholeheartedly, the point about legal issues was also a good one. Here in California we can't carry a concealed fixed blade, but a concealed folder is OK under state law. (Of course, some municipalities also have blade length restrictions.) In any event, there can be circumstances in California where folders may offer a legal advantage over fixed blades.
 
Joe -

Yes, I was at the Edged Weapons seminar. But you probably wouldn't know who I was.

I thought the exercises where we learned to grasp, draw, and deploy our folder blades were good, but despite all the practice I still fear Mr. Murphy creeping up on me in a time of need and for whatever reason I don't get the folder drawn or deployed in time. Or worse yet - I THINK it's deployed, but it isn't locked and it closes on my own finger. Trust me - if it can happen, it will happen to me - I know this from experience. That's why I like to have as few variables as possible and would prefer a fixed blade.

The other alternative I've thought of is using the folder as a blunt weapon to fend of your attacker until you can safely deploy the blade. I'm going to be doing some more blade training, so maybe I'll become more comfortable with the folder.
 
Sorry I didn't get to meet you...then again, maybe I did. It was fast times there for awhile! I know EXACTLY what you mean on the folder deployment issue..not to start another thread but I had a situation where I only had my folder and no other back up. I held onto it and drove it into the sternum repeatedly, it worked..I'm still here. No heroics...just dropping back to tried and true. I wasn't trying for the "5 fingers of Death" routine...I just wanted to be alive when it was over.
All the best,
J
p.s. my local buddy, who is into executive protection, carries 3 fixed blades and a folder for backup...FYI.
 
Panzer:

Okay, I guess that I too could call myself the uninjured "winner" of my fracas; that is, if you call running from the pandemonium drenched in starving Indians' blood, seconds before the intrepid Varanasi police arrive, "winning". But I couldn't agree with your main point more. Too many people are buying "dangerous" looking tactical knives and thinking that, by putting one in a pocket, they too are now dangerous. In virtually every pursuit I've had in life (yoga, martial arts, hang-gliding, trying to understand women), practice isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing.

After you've practiced as much as you possibly can........ practice.

My regards to Field Marshall Rommel.
 
Raptor_Prime,
I truly feel that the best is the one your using at the time.
I'm not even going to entertain ALL the what if scenarios. It's futile to me. What is of paramount importance is to purchase a Really good folder (read excellent lock up , ergonomics, ratio, indexing/purchase capability, etc. et al). In my line of work, I can't always get away w/ a Fixed Blade depending where I'm at (venu, country etc.)

Understanding the principles here is what's the greater importance.
You can improvise w/ in your environment or improvise w/ your own clothing. When I train we do drills w/ Belts, Shirts, Bandanas etc.
These are not my first line of defense but If I'm caught off guard or somewhere w/o the ability to use a Edged weapon at least I have a strategy to survive. I beleive a person CAN survive an armed encounter
w/ use of those aformentioned items. Call me and train I'll show you.
Keep in mind, it's not a perfect world and there are many variables here. It's not my first choice but it's efficacy can be acheived and has in real deal conflicts.

Train w/ me and I'll show you how infrequent disarms really happen.
Remember in Monkey Brain mentality, disarms are rare and not the norm.


IMNSHO
Stay well and hope that helps,

Lancer
 
I've already contacted you big guy! I'm the one who does Krav Maga. I just need to save my pennies and put together a cirriculum of stuff I want to learn. Knife training and fighting on the ground from my back are on the top of my list.

Thanks for all your help.
 
Hey there Raptor,
just so you know there wasn't any malice in my statement. You can SURVIVE a deadly encounter and still be in a wheel chair, or paralyzed, or worse. When I said train to win, I mean just that, WIN, go home in one piece, leave the other guy in pieces. Its just a winning mindset, a winning attitude. I think you will agree, as you obviously train regularly, that mindset is also a VERY important part of violent encounters. you can train all day, if you aren't always mentally prepared, your plan will go to hell. It is a point that alot of LE trainers make during training, train to WIN, be prepared to do anything to WIN, use any amount of force or violence to WIN, not just survive.
just to clear the air
chris
P.S. you will notice that in my first line I said INJURED winner, not uninjured, I needed more training, which I now relentlessly pursue. might help you to understand my rather intense attitude towards this subject.
 
Panzer,

I never saw any malice in your statement so if you thought I was offended, I wasn't.

Mindset is absolutely CRITICAL to prevailing in a violent encounter. I'm training to be a Model Mugging instructor, and a big part of the class is getting women to adopt a mindset that will allow them to inflict whatever damage they need to inflict on the bad guy. It's tough for them to accept the mindset that they MAY have to severely injure or kill someone for them to survive. They often ask questions like, "If I do that - isn't there a chance I could permanently hurt him or kill him?" They are filled with hesitation, whereas the bad guys are not and that's why they have an advantage both physically and mentally. It's a tough mindset for many guys to accept as well. That's why 98% of the martial arts out there don't even talk about having a proper mindset. Probably because it's too scary for most people and the MA studios would lose students. Marc MacYoung has an excellent concept of "the trigger" in one of his books, which we can discuss at another time if you are not familiar with it.

In terms of being injured while knife fighting, the Edged Weapons seminar further re-inforced my belief that if you get into a knife fight with a guy who's really serious, you will almost definitely get cut, no matter how good you are. It's the nature of the beast. I hope if I ever get into a knife fight I'm the only one with a knife.
 
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