Folding knife as a substitute for a fixed blade?

H

half penny

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Feb 6, 2014
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Hello, all. I'm sorry if the title was misleading, but this thread has very much to do with rules relating to knives. Also, if this truly is in the wrong fpart of the forums, which it very well may be, please let me know.

After learning where I will be going to Boy Scout camp this summer, I made myself aware that they do not allow "sheath knives" on camp properety, and I would have liked to use a fixed blde knife for wilderness survival merit badge. But let's explore a bit what the term "sheath knife" could mean. Could it be a folder with a sheath? I have a folding Wenger knife from my grandmother with a sheath, so would it make that small swiss army knife illegal as well? Would it encompass a fixed blade knife with no sheath? I know it is ludicrous to carry a fixed blade knife around with no sheath, but that would not be a "sheath knife", as it is not accompanied with a sheath. Since they did not explicitly say fixed blade, the term sheath knife is up for debate.

Now, I know that no locking folder can substitute for a full-tang Esee 4, Tops BOB, Ontario blackbird sk-5, or other survival-oriented fixed blade, with the exception, perhaps, of this http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1043031-Folding-Bushcraft-Knife-that-is-usable-comfortable-by-Daniel-Koster, but I don't have $365 to spend on a knife, or anything at all for that matter.

So my question is this: Is there any knife for less than $100 or so (a negotiable price) available that is similar in performance to a fixed blade? I know that no folder can even be compared to a fixed blade, but I would love to do a SMALL bit of batoning, perhaps with the method where the blade is not fully extended or in a locked position.

Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it!

Also, in my opinion, a folding knife such as a swiss army knife in the hands of an 11 year old is far more dangerous than a fixed blade. He'll likey close the bllade on his hands, and that is why we all have to get our "toting chip" to carry or use a blade of any sorts at any scouting event. And if the argument is that some crazy kid, hyped up on video games, goes around with a fixed blade and stabs a bunch of people, he could just as easily do the same thing with a locking folder that can be more easily concealed. Just my extra 2 cents.
 
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I am unable to give you a good answer about which folder would work best for you as I am primarily a fixed blade person. I carry a couple of small Bucks (482/484) and neither of them would be appropriate for even half-assed batoning. When I was a scout back in the dark ages, we carried and used both fixed and folding knives. I still have the fixed blade I carried to Philomont in 1968 and 1971.

With respect to the "sheath knife" dilemma, I think this is a case of someone who doesn't have a clue about knives. I'm sure the person was referring to fixed blade knives, because many non-knife people, (incorrectly of course), think that "sheath knife" MEANS "fixed blade knife". To preclude a "sheath" knife does not take into account larger folding knives that are carried in belt sheaths because they would be uncomfortable for pocket carry. I "think" you could take just about any legal (blade length for the state the camp is in) folding knife. If you have any qualms, call the camp and ask if the ban on "sheath" knives refers only to fixed blade knives or if it means you can't carry a folding knife in a belt sheath. Then again, to quote an old saying, "It is easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission." You could show up with a folder in a sheath and if the bitch, take it out of the sheath and put it in your pocket or back pack.
 
There is not much room for experimentation, as they say that carrying a "sheath knife" on their property is grounds for immediate dismissal from camp. My family paid a rather exorbitant sum of moneys for me to attend (thank-you!), and camp is over 5 hours drive time from my house.

And I won't be batoning wood for long, just for a fire for one night. Obviously the people who made this rule did so with little justification and with no regard to scouting's "Be prepared" principle. A folder is no replacement for a fixed blade, and whoever made that rule was blissfully unaware of how boys use knives. We do sharpen sticks (at least some of the younger scouts), but while not at restrictive areas such as this summer camp, the older, more experienced scouts use their fixed blade knives for food prep, batoning, chopping, and other things many folders are not capable of.
 
Then I'd be calling them for a clarification.... "Does your rule that bans sheath knives include any folding knife that is carried in a belt sheath or does it just refer to fixed blades."

You bring up a good point about food prep. Is this a cafeteria style camp w/ a big kitchen for meals, or do the campers prepare their own meals. If the campers have to prepare their own meals, you might need to ask what kind of kitchen cutlery you are allowed to bring.

My troop had these foot locker style boxes on pipe legs that one of the scout masters built - 1 for each Patrol unit, with pans, cutlery, dutch oven, etc.... They may have some similar setups which make bringing your own food prep cutlery unnecessary.
 
This isn't worth messing around with. Don't do anything that could get you kicked out. Not worth it.

Just follow the rules; ask for clarification, but don't skirt the edges. They are talking about fixed blades. It doesn't matter if the rule makes sense or not.
 
Svord Peasant Knife... and it won't cost you much to try it, either.
[video=youtube;KB67N28oihA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB67N28oihA[/video]
[video=youtube;4Lc0zIUc0Yg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lc0zIUc0Yg[/video]

If you run into a blade size limit, there is also a Mini version with a 2.5" blade.
2hsi.jpg
 
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One of the things I remember most back to my Boy Scout days when using a knife is the "blood circle". Do you know that term or have they phased it out?

That could be a reason for no "sheath knives", its dangerous to do a "blood circle" with a fixed blade, especially when the sheath is attached to your belt.
 
That's pretty bad that they would threaten to kick you out for having a fixed bladed knife...

I say spend a little extra and get the Cold Steel Espada XL in g10.

The blade may be 7-1/2" but it has a pocket clip... it's a pocket knife...
 
Mind of I ask what camp this is? I only ask out of shear curiosity, I was a councilor at camp falling rock in eastern ohio for several summer-camp seasons, 2002-2005.
 
Cold Steel's knives with the triad lock can sustain a pretty incredible level of abuse, approaching fixed blade strength. I know I have seen people on this forum discussing how they have used their Rajah 2 as a fixed blade substitute without issue.
 
A Cold Steel Voyager Large (4") clip point will take nearly as much abuse as a fixed blade and comes in at half your budget.

I would have a Swiss Army Knife (Huntsman?) for normal usage and only break out the Voyager when I really need to whack something.
 
Thank you for all your responses!

I am going to a Ten Mile River camp in NY, and the link is here: http://www.tenmileriver.org/gen/pgm/res_policies/other_pols.shtml. I find it amusing how they list stealing, gambling, vandalism, and cutting of live trees as prohibited "items".

And I will have to be preparing food 1 or 2 nights out of the week, but a small disposable blade will not suffice for a small bit of batoning...
I would have musch preferred getting a fixed blade, as I go camping and will use it a lot,but I may need to divert those funds reserved for a fixed blade into a folder that I'll be afraid to use for batoning, whacking, and other hard-use tasks.
 
Don't kid yourself. "Sheath knife" is just another way of saying fixed blade. They're not going to ding you for a folder in a sheath. IMO, the reason they don't allow them is because kids aren't known for the best gear and a bunch of kids running around with fixed blades in crappy sheaths is an accident waiting to happen. Just one of them has to slip and stab themselves. That is why the rule is there IMO.

That said, if you HAVE to baton use a svord like mentioned above. However, why not get a sak with a saw? Much more versatile then any of the tacticool folders you can think of.
 
Common sense:

A sheath knife without a sheath is still a sheath knife.
A folder with a pouch is not a sheath knife.

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For a hard use folder, I would recommend a Rat 1. It costs $30, and I have batoned, chopped, and abused the you-know-what out of it. It is still kicking.
 
Around here people say sheath knife or Buck knife instead of fixed blade. I've never heard anyone say fixed blade. The Scout camp rule refers to fixed blades.
 
Opinel 12 carbon + Swisstool RS = 110 USD

Opinel 12 carbon + Victorinox Trailmaster = 80 USD

Or just get an Opinel 12 for 20 USD for everything.

The 4.7 inch convex blade of the Opinel 12 will be perfect for your bushcraft tasks.
 
Take a look at the Cold Steel Pocket Bushman, it should be plenty tough enough for your needs and is not very expensive. Might as well save your money for that fixed blade you want and will use elsewhere.
 
when getting my wilderness survival badge, i used a coldsteel recon 1. By sheath knives, if this has already been said before, they mean fixed blades, but being non knife-worshipers, many have no idea what a fixed blade knife is. Also, try not to chop down living trees for your shelter (i learned that the hard way). Good luck
 
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